Queen of the Demonweb Pits - what's so bad?

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Was Lolth's "spider ship" really steampunk, or was it an actual sci-fi spaceship? I find it hard to believe it was steampunk, since that genre didn't really exist back in the early eighties.

It was a big mechanical spider vehicle, just like the Wild Wild West movie featured. (The TV show predates the module by quite a bit. Steampunk by any other name would be just as greasy.)

 

[Keeper of Secrets]

I really loved the Demonweb Pits. I ran it years and years ago and had a lot of fun with it.

The one thing which I can see as frustrating were the corridors or endless mischief the characters could get into, doorways to other worlds which only had a paragraph and so on. As others has mentioned, it was a concept adventure and did not seem to 'fit' with what came before it in the series.

But Demonweb Pits is what D&D was all about - especially that era of adventures. Gygax, Sutherland and the rest, running around putting together the zaniest of stuff that still made sense. Even though it did seem to fit thematically with the rest of the adventures in that series, it still 'fit' with regards to D&D.

 

[BenBrown]

It's described as "powered by large steam engines" and appears to be made of metal plates bolted together. It's also lit by "hidden ceiling fixtures."

It's kind of a mixed bag.

 

[RainOfSteel]

Was Lolth's "spider ship" really steampunk, or was it an actual sci-fi spaceship?

I don't think they were going for what would now be considered a Steampunk look and feel specifically, but the spider ship was steam powered and would fit into that genre.

It was not a space ship.

 

[darkseraphim]

I wish we knew more about David C. Sutherland III. I was around during his illness and the DMG painting, fund-raising etc., but he was still pretty mysterious to me.

I have a pet theory that the otherworldly influences in Q1 actually stem from David's stint with M.A.R. Barker, serving as illustrator for Empire of the Petal Throne and other works. When you consider Q1 through a Tekumel lens, it begins to make much more sense.

 

[David Howery]

Yeah, the D series and Q1 modules were a bit 'incomplete', in that a lot of areas weren't detailed well (or at all); this was all too common in the older modules back then. The D series modules all had that large scale hex map of the underground caverns, nearly all of which were 'for the DM to develop'. Q1 had short descriptions for entire alternate Prime planes. Still, the modules had the potential for literally years of gaming, if the DM wanted to take the time and develop all those areas. If not, there was still the option of taking a straight path through the adventures and ignoring all the undeveloped areas...

 

[PaulofCthulhu]

I ran this for my old D&D group over a quarter of a century ago. We had a blast with it. I fondly recall a room full of trolls pulling the party Paladin in through the doorway and giving him a good what-for and later engendering a situation where another party member was so distraught with small "cooing" rocks that had been broken that he used a wish spell to fix them.

Ahh, happy days.

In essence we had no issue with Q1, just good rollicking (probably unquestioning) fun.

 

[the Jester]

I like Q1 a great deal. Sure, it's not my favorite, but even if you consider it the "red-headed stepchild of GDQ", that's not bad; the G and D modules are all excellent.

That said, I'd probably place Q1 on equal footing with D1 in my book.

I think the doors to other planes were awesome. I love that you get a glimpse of the scope of the plots of demon lords and their ilk. That has actually always inspired me since- in my campaign, demons, devils, gods, etc. have concerns that extend to plane after plane, perhaps in some cases to all planes. I love the idea of attacking an arch-devil's or demon prince's forces by assaulting them on a different plane in order to cause strategic weakness. (Hi Sepulchrave!)

I even think that most of the monsters in the module make sense; I have no problem with the idea that not ALL gnolls follow Yeenoghu, for instance.

 

[Nikosandros]

For those interested in variations on Q1, it is worth noting that Dragonsfoot released an alternative (modern) version called Skein of the Death Mother.

 

[RainOfSteel]

The D series modules all had that large scale hex map of the underground caverns, nearly all of which were 'for the DM to develop'.

Yes, D1-3 definitely had that issue. The first time I started a run with D1, one of the players wanted to turn right after the first encounter and go off the identified path on the map. He thought there would be nothing but traps down that path and wanted to try and find a way around it, otherwise, what was all that blank space doing on the map?

Those were some reasonable assumptions and the party went with it. I gave some hints to the contrary, but they were not believed.

Except for the first encounter, all the set portions of D1-2, which I had carefully studied, became useless.

It required quick thinking on my part for the various encounter points on the map, especially since I didn't want to throw up what amounted to a retaliatory wall for them not following the "path".

It also resulted in substantial delays because there is no really clear path to the Vault on either side of the map, the center path is the ideal way to get there.

I suppose I could flame D1-2 for not fully detailing the entire underground. After all, it did not have to include all those extra tunnels. It could have railroaded the players down one set tunnel. But those extra spaces, empty and without detail, were fantastic.

Still, the modules had the potential for literally years of gaming, if the DM wanted to take the time and develop all those areas.

Another resounding yes. I have spent quite a bit of time staring at the DM underground map for D1-3, imagining what would be going on down there.

The various peripheral encounter areas are not well-connected to each other. There is little that could be considered as routes between them and the Vault. Yet the random encounter table has drow merchants on it, and D3 has the Vault populated with various merchant houses. I always wondered who they were trading with or how they could possibly have made a profit given all the dangers imposed by the wandering monsters chart. This is a logical flaw in D1-3 design. It's not one I am going to criticize, though. D1-3 were great. So was Q1. They shared many similar design elements.