Queen of the Demonweb Pits - what's so bad?

[Bullgrit]

[Dave Sutherland] showed me an idea he had for a "dungeon" level, and what a level! What an idea! This, I told him, was the perfect setting for the DEMONWEB and straightaway placed the entire project into his capable hands. Since then, he has been hard at work developing and perfecting the scenario you now have before you. My only contributions have been some brief notes, a monster, a bit of editing, and this introductory piece. I am certain that you will find DEMONWEB to be a superior design, and Dave deserves all the credit. It is a fitting climax of and culmination for the other adventures in the series. DEMONWEB is remarkably innovative and imaginative. Take a look now, and see if you don't agree that it is special indeed--guaranteed to give your players unsurpassed challenge. This module is truly for the expert player, and ability--not character level--will be the telling factor. Enjoy!

Bullgrit

 

[TheAuldGrump]

I find it hard to believe it was steampunk, since that genre didn't really exist back in the early eighties.

Watch Fritz Lang's Metropolis (1927). See how many steampunk tropes you can spot....

Metropolis is the best example of Steampunk cinema, sixty years and more before the term was coined.

The trope existed, though the term did not.

The Auld Grump

 

[wrecan]

With regard to the genre mixing, keep in mind that at the time, the game presumed a certain level of genre-mixing. The AD&D DMG had rules for converting to Gamma World and Boot Hill and mentioned Metamorphosis Alpha. Also why Gygax introduced Murlynd as a wild west gunslinger-turned-demigod. Gygax didn't want TSR to be only about D&D. That's why he kept releasing other genre games like Top Secret. And folks like Jim Ward and Sutherland were happy to oblige EGG. Also remember that Q1 was released around the same time as the other genre-bending module, S3: Expedition to the Barrier Peaks.

If the D&D world was intended to allow cross-genre, then traipsing through a goddess' lair is a good way to introduce alternate universes and alternate genres.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

With regard to the genre mixing, keep in mind that at the time, the game presumed a certain level of genre-mixing. The AD&D DMG had rules for converting to Gamma World and Boot Hill and mentioned Metamorphosis Alpha. Also why Gygax introduced Murlynd as a wild west gunslinger-turned-demigod. Gygax didn't want TSR to be only about D&D. That's why he kept releasing other genre games like Top Secret. And folks like Jim Ward and Sutherland were happy to oblige EGG. Also remember that Q1 was released around the same time as the other genre-bending module, S3: Expedition to the Barrier Peaks.

And don't forget Gygax's article in The Dragon (republished in Best of the Dragon, Vol. 1) featuring D&D heroes facing off against a Nazi tank division.

 

[Treebore]

I loved it when I played through it many years ago, and we had great fun when I wrapped up GMing the whole series last year at 13th and 14th level. There was some weird wonkiness to be found throughout the whole series, not just Q1, but like any good game master I made it work for my group and we had fun.

Plus I think ANYTHING that takes place on the Abyss is going to be weird, silly, insane, and even completely unimaginable. I think the module pulled that kind of feel off admirably without crossing the line of becoming unusable by GM's with anything close to normal sensibilities.

 

[Ron]

[Dave Sutherland] showed me an idea he had for a "dungeon" level, and what a level! What an idea! This, I told him, was the perfect setting for the DEMONWEB and straightaway placed the entire project into his capable hands. Since then, he has been hard at work developing and perfecting the scenario you now have before you. My only contributions have been some brief notes, a monster, a bit of editing, and this introductory piece. I am certain that you will find DEMONWEB to be a superior design, and Dave deserves all the credit. It is a fitting climax of and culmination for the other adventures in the series. DEMONWEB is remarkably innovative and imaginative. Take a look now, and see if you don't agree that it is special indeed--guaranteed to give your players unsurpassed challenge. This module is truly for the expert player, and ability--not character level--will be the telling factor. Enjoy!

Bullgrit

It seems that Gary changed his opinion with time or, more likely, he was originally just trying to promote a product he wasn't happy with.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/archive-threads/171753-gary-gygax-q-part-xii-4.html#post3022735
I did not write Q3, nor did I approve of it. complain to the Blumes, for they insisted on publishing it against my objections.

As for the chief antagonist, it was meant to be Exlavdra on behlaf of the EEG, with the minions of Lolth, not the demoness per se., being second and a counterweight to the former as noted. The latter will fight against the Eilservs and tolerate for a time the presence of a PC party that is discommoding their foes.

or

http://www.enworld.org/forum/archive-threads/171753-gary-gygax-q-part-xii-5.html#post3024765
Ah well,

I had what I consider a much more interesting plan for the conclusion of the G-D series, one in which the PC party could loose the Elder Elemental god or send him into deeper isolation, thus assisting Lolth to become more powerful. By very astute play, they could have thwarted the designs of both evil entities. The Demonweb Pits were indeed envisioned as mze like, but there were to be no machines therein.

Cheers,
Gary

He also admits the reception of Q1 was also rather weak:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/archive-threads/171753-gary-gygax-q-part-xii-5.html#post3023213
[Refering to the Fact GDQ was nominated the best D&D adventure of all time] Somehow I don't believe that was done by the veteran OAD&D audience, for I have received far too many comments panning the Q1 module and it is worth noting that the rating was given for the module combining its predacessors, G 1-3 and D 1-3, not just Q1.

If the Abyss is a maze design on a towel, I am at a loss, completely overwhealmed

Cheers,
Gary

 

[Bullgrit]

It seems that Gary changed his opinion with time or, more likely, he was originally just trying to promote a product he wasn't happy with.

Well, the preface he wrote in glowing support of Q1 was inside the book, found only after having already purchased the material and removed the shrink wrap. If it was on the outside cover, I could see an argument for it being merely a sales spiel.

Bullgrit

 

[wrecan]

He may have been required to write it and then afterwards, the Blumes (or whoever) put it on the inside. Also, time changes memories. He may have genuinely loved it and then, hearing criticism of it, internalized a "Well, I didn't write it" which became "I never liked it much".