question about dunken monkey monk power

[ahammer]

I was looking it over and you get a foe to use a melee basic attack vs one enemy of your choice. could you force him to attack himself?

I can see how it could happen on the rp side of things but does it work that way in raw?

 

[holywhitetrash]

i don't have that book in front of me but unless it says "another enemy" you should be able to do that

 

[OpenPalm]

It doesn't say another enemy, but the flavor texts clearly implies that it hits someone else. It says that you cause one of your foes to attack it's companion which pretty clearly states to me that the designers didn't intent this power work to have the person attack themselves. It does say that the target makes an attack against one enemy of your choices, so it might work in the legal sense, if not in the spirit of the power.

 

[Mort_Q]

The Hit line includes: The target then makes a melee basic attack as a free action against one enemy of your choice. The target gains a bonus to the attack roll equal to your Wisdom modifier.

RAW, a MBA must target a creature, which technically includes the target, so they could attack themselves.

That said, I agree with OpenPalm as to the intent.... though I can't say it's broken either way.

 

[ahammer]

as it is the target that makes the attack if he has a mark on him it would force a -2 to hit right. also would this let the extra effects of the mark go off?

from a rp side I see it as a forced fumble by you moving around and getting in his way a bit then out of his way.

"your ax swings at the monk. but he get out of the way of the swing you trip over his foot your ax comes down to hit you in the leg."

harder to see with a long stabing weapon.

overall It seems to me that Open the gate of battle would do more damage as it only need one to hit roll.

 

[Lord Ernie]

Open the gates is indeed better as a pure damage power, but like you said: using Drunken Monkey on a creature marked by someone with a damaging mark (fighter, paladin, warden...) can be pretty brutal, especially if they attack themselves. First you hit them, then they draw an attack from the marking defender, and then they attack themselves (sure, at -2 to hit, but hey). Drawing OA's is not the only way to trigger the defender's mark .

 

[mneme]

The easy answer is that flavor isn't rules.

I think that's the right answer, too. The flavor describes the typical usage, but you can have the result enter with whatever story makes sense for the situation and the result.

 

[Bold or Stupid]

I had this come up last week. I ruled that since it says any enemy, the target stabbing himself is valid. I think of it as any range of martial arts movie redirect, from ducking a blow from an assailant so it hits his ally, to turning a knife onto the user by tangling his arm at an opportune moment. If I was getting technical I would explain as providing an opportunity attack and and redirecting it.

 

[LightPhoenix]

I would say no.

The important part of the line is "against one enemy." By definition, enemies and allies don't include the person acting. Furthermore, the power clearly indicates it is the target making the attack, not the monk. If the target could attack itself, that line would read "against one creature." The fact that it is labeled enemy is meant to indicate that you can't accidentally hit your allies with it.

I understand the argument about redirects, but flavor doesn't indicate rules - even nifty flavor.

 

[ahammer]

I would say no.

The important part of the line is "against one enemy." By definition, enemies and allies don't include the person acting. Furthermore, the power clearly indicates it is the target making the attack, not the monk. If the target could attack itself, that line would read "against one creature." The fact that it is labeled enemy is meant to indicate that you can't accidentally hit your allies with it.

I understand the argument about redirects, but flavor doesn't indicate rules - even nifty flavor.

if you read the power that way you would have to make him attack one of your allys