Question about escaping a Grapple or Sundering weapon/what kind of action is it?

[DM-Rocco]

Hello all,
Say, I was wondering, in the last week we had two questions come up, the same general qestion concerning two defferent combat abilities, Grapple and Sunder.

In the book it says under both, that you can attempt them in place of an attack, implying to my PCs that they can attempt it more than once a round as a full-round action, but in the 3.5 PHB, actions in combat, page 141, table 8-2, under standard action, it lists escaping a grapple and sunder a weapon as a standard action, so if that is true, then you can't try to escape a grapple or sunder a weapons more than once per round, correct?

 

[nhl_1997]

Escaping a Grapple

There are two (common) methods for escaping a grapple. Using the attack action you can make opposed grapple checks: BAB + str + size + whatever else effects the check. In this situation, mulitple attempts are made at progressivly worse BAB bonuses.

The other common method is via an Escape Artist check opposed by a grapple check. It's a standard action to use escape artist in an attempt to break a grapple.

 

[RigaMortus]

In the book it says under both, that you can attempt them in place of an attack, implying to my PCs that they can attempt it more than once a round as a full-round action, but in the 3.5 PHB, actions in combat, page 141, table 8-2, under standard action, it lists escaping a grapple and sunder a weapon as a standard action, so if that is true, then you can't try to escape a grapple or sunder a weapons more than once per round, correct?

On the same chart, it lists "Attack (melee)" as a Standard Action too. That does not mean that anytime you attack in melee combat, it is always considered a Standard Action.

Actually, the chart lists "Sunder a weapon (attack)" as a Standard Action. This works just like "Attack (melee)". Anything you can do with "Attack (melee)" you can do with "Sunder a weapon (attack)". If you get multiple attacks, like with a Full Attack, you can apply any type of attack to that, whether it be a Sunder, Trip, or Grapple.

 

[dcollins]

In the book it says under both, that you can attempt them in place of an attack, implying to my PCs that they can attempt it more than once a round as a full-round action, but in the 3.5 PHB, actions in combat, page 141, table 8-2, under standard action, it lists escaping a grapple and sunder a weapon as a standard action, so if that is true, then you can't try to escape a grapple or sunder a weapons more than once per round, correct?

With regard to Sunder, this has been argued about frequently since 3.0 first came out. I agree with you that the table indicates you can only do Sunder once per round. However, the Sage wrote an entry for the FAQ asserting that it can be used as an attack action multiple times in a round.

 

[Hypersmurf]

With regard to Sunder, this has been argued about frequently since 3.0 first came out. I agree with you that the table indicates you can only do Sunder once per round. However, the Sage wrote an entry for the FAQ asserting that it can be used as an attack action multiple times in a round.

This is, of course, the FAQ answer where he says "The table lists it as a standard action because it provokes an AoO", despite the fact that Grapple and Disarm both provoke AoOs, yet they are listed as "Action Type: Varies" with a footnote stating they can be used once in an attack or charge action, one or more times in a full attack action, or as an AoO.

The credibility of that particular FAQ answer is... dubious.

-Hyp.

 

[dcollins]

And we're off!

 

[Dragon Mage]

Complicating the issue

If Sunder is an attack action and can be attempted multiple times during a full round action, what bonuses does the defender use to fend off the sunder?

Sunder is based on an opposed attack role. Since the attacking 11th level fighter attempting the sunder gets 3 attacks, +11 +6 +1 (plus bonuses), does the defending 11th level fighter use his highest bab for all sunder attempts?

 

[Alpha Polaris]

If Sunder is an attack action and can be attempted multiple times during a full round action, what bonuses does the defender use to fend off the sunder?

Sunder is based on an opposed attack role. Since the attacking 11th level fighter attempting the sunder gets 3 attacks, +11 +6 +1 (plus bonuses), does the defending 11th level fighter use his highest bab for all sunder attempts?

In my campaign, that's how we do it, exactly like disarms and grapple checks. The attacker gets cumulative penalties for iterative attacks, the defender does not.