Question about Sigil inhabitants

[Starsunder]

I know that fiends and angels are common sights in Sigil, but I was wondering if Pit Fiends, Balors, Ultraloths, and Solars were. The cream of the crop of their respective races. I dont really see a reason why there wouldnt be some; it just seems like they'd be very rare sights.

Any thoughts?

 

[Shemeska]

I know that fiends and angels are common sights in Sigil, but I was wondering if Pit Fiends, Balors, Ultraloths, and Solars were. The cream of the crop of their respective races. I dont really see a reason why there wouldnt be some; it just seems like they'd be very rare sights.

Any thoughts?

They can, in theory enter Sigil. But by their nature they would tend to cause disruptions in the city's normal state of affairs, either on their own, or by making a target of themselves to beings opposed to what they represent. Being a magnet for conflict in Sigil is risky, because you cause too much upheaval and you're asking for a quick trip to the Mazes, or Her Serenity's shadow to fall across your path.

For top echelon outsiders, that's not a risk many of them are willing to take - that's what their own underlings are for, because there's no need to expose themselves in Sigil, away from their base of power, especially with The Lady potentially taking a malign interest in any malign intent they have on their own for going to Sigil.

For my own games, I've never actually had a Solar, Pit Fiend, Ultraloth, Balor, Tulani, etc enter Sigil themselves. But I've had tons of rumors about one or more of them doing so - just no direct evidence for it (like the canon rumors of a Pit Fiend lairing in or under Sigil's Hellgate district). I generally just have a ton of 2nd tier fiends and celestials operating as representatives of top tier members of their respective races (and also for the actual nobility of their race too).

 

[ArghMark]

I find those big guys are far too inhuman to really be just walking about. I wouldn't say its impossible - but think of it like this. A Solar walks down the street in the Hive and even the jaded masses fall to their knees and weep at the purity of the solar. Vice versa for the big bads - they fall down and scream in horror that their souls exist in the same place as these beasties.

As Shemeska said, they simply cause problems by being there.

On the other hand, if they did need to be there personally, they'd probably be shape changed or what not.

I always assumed that as an image, a Solar had the power and force of a sun. What happens when you get close to a sun?

 

[Ambrus]

There's at least one pit fiend known as Willum dwelling in Sigil, who functions as a representative of the General Assurance Company. He can often be found at the Lower Ward's Grinning Imp tavern if memory serves. The chant says that there's at least one other pit fiend, known alternatively as Mirshaz or Fesneur, supposedly running the Lower Ward's Hellgate District in secret; the truth of that remains dark though.

There's was a Solar named Galgaliel who returned from Chronias, the Seventh Heaven, and visited the city at least once while on a crucial mission. I can't find any references to balors or ultraloths having ever entered Sigil within recorded history however.

So, one way or another, such ultra powerful beings are certainly a rare sight in the Cage. I figure that, being in the top tiers of their respective plane's societies, such creatures are simply too busy governing their spheres of influence to bother/risk trudging into Sigil lightly. Surely such powerful individuals has a large pool of competent underlings that they can send to Sigil if ever the need arises; those would be the lesser celestials and fiends that one occasionally sees on the streets of Sigil.

 

[I'm A Banana]

It would probably be something like if some other country's President/King/Iron Fisted Dictator came to hang out in NYC. Certain communities would definitely know about it, and it might cause a big disturbance, but it could also be pretty low-key, a sort of "just hangin' out with the missus and going to see a show" kind of night.

 

[avin]

On my games Sigil has at least 2 million people in it, so, it's not impossible to have Balors and Ultroloths in it.

 

[Starsunder]

I appreciate all the answers guys.

The reason why I was asking is that for my current campaign, I plan to have a very powerful balor awaken in Undersigil, unaware of who he is (other than name), how he got there, what he was doing before, nothing. To add to the mystery, despite his awesome power (he's a 52 HD balor), his destructive nature and anger/hatred of (most) things appears to be curbed substantially. The PC's will have to figure out who, or what, did this to him and why (and then decide what to do with him after all is revealed).

While im on the subject, out of curiousity, what order do the powerhouses rank in terms of each other? The Solar is almost assuredly the strongest (I think in 2ed they could summon titans?!) but after that its a coin toss (as far as my knowledge goes). Ideas/Opinions?

 

[Oryan77]

Well keep in mind also, if for any reason one of these creatures needed to be in Sigil, they probably would use spells to alter their shape and stay in disguise. An Ultraloth could probably blend in better without much of a disguise. A Solar would probably definitely alter his appearance just so he's not being disruptive. A Pit Fiend would probably change his appearance anyway just to help his cause, whether he's in Sigil or not (you know he's up to no good if you see him in Sigil, so he'd want to be low key). A Balor, well...he probably wouldn't even go to Sigil....he'd be too annoyed being "undercover" and probably couldn't keep it up long, and he'd know that he couldn't get much done if everyone knew a Balor was in the city. If a Balor was in Sigil, he wouldn't be out in public...he'd work from a hidden location.

 

[I'm A Banana]

That's a pretty keen plot idea, dude. I would think it would be noticeable and unusual, if it ever got widely known, but Undersigil is basically "the dungeon," so he could probably lurk there indefinitely.

I'm not sure of the relative rank of bigwigs (Shem probably would. ) -- I've considered them all more or less on par.