Question about (Tenser's) Floating Disk

[Saeviomagy]

jgsugdenwhy didn't they exclude this use specifically? (as had been done before.)

They probably felt, as many of us do, that it was an unecessary restriction, the removal of which had few or no balance issues.

Saeviomagy:
i actually didn't feel it was offensive at all. i never made any accusations, nor did i call any names. i simply stated that his tone came off a certain way. however, there are a lot of delicate crystaline constitutions around here, and i wanted to make sure that anyone who read it, did so by their own choice, not mine. gutter! )

Well, no - if you felt you needed to do that, then it would seem to indicate that you recognised that it might offend someone. Just pointing out that if you'd spent the time required to write an upfront apology, and black it out on rethinking the words themselves, you would probably not have even risked offending anyone. As it was, you merely tried to absolve yourself of blame.

(although, if you need to jump down, you can't charge.) and if it's already possible and the game is balanced, i can't imagine how it'd be unbalancing to allow a wizard to make a full attack that way.
~NegZ

I'd probably agree. It's a cool use for a 1st level spell. I was just illustrating the possible balance issues, not saying they made the spell too good.

As for the "if you need to jump down, you can't charge" - jump checks are made as part of movement, and a jumping charge is perfectly legitimate.

and requires you to be in a freefall already and the spell prepared (which for a wizard can be hazardous) but for a sorceror even more troublesome as it takes up 1 of the few spells he has.

And levitate does what that could be tactically beneficial (and therefore is a balance issue)? It gets you into the air - the only possible power consideration is that it might get you out of the reach of some nasty critters who can't fly. Almost any other use can be replicated with a different spell of lower or equal level, most of which have other abilities, or more advantageous mechanics.

tenser's floating disc doesn't do that. It MAY let you do some interesting combinations of moves and full round actions. Expeditious retreat has (in any such tactic where you make a movement) the same or a superior effect. I really don't think tenser's is that much of a problem if you let the caster ride it (especially when his buddies can ride it).

 

[Caliban]

I've only actually seen Tenser's Floating Disk used twice. Once, my Evocation specialist wizard had it prepped, expecting to do some heavy shopping that day in the city. He only had it in his spellbook because it was the only evocation spell available when he hit 2nd level.

It turned out that we were jumped by incorporeal undead (Shadows) and he ended up using the spell to provide a force platform that the fighters could stand on, thus preventing the shadows from attacking them from underneath the ground.

I later used it as a halfling transport when we were sludging through a swamp with 2.5 feet of water, an once as a halfling umbrella (it was raining and he was less than 3 feet tall).

Other than that, I've never seen anyone else even take the spell.

 

[Li Shenron]

... an once as a halfling umbrella (it was raining and he was less than 3 feet tall).

Broken! Overpowered! Munchkin!

 

[Magus Coeruleus]

My reasons

My reasons for not allowing FD to be used as a personal transportation device:

1) If this were intended, it would the most useful function of the spell, far more primary than carrying equipment and treasure. As such, the spell description would explicitly mention this function and if anything would leave out the part about being able to carry other stuff, leaving one to interpret that the way people are trying to interpret personal transpo into it.

2) Allowing non-following movement based on the phrase "If not otherwise directed" seems to me to be an egregiously overly-generous interpretation.

3) My interpretation of "If not otherwise directed, it maintains a constant interval of 5 feet between itself and you" is that you can turn this following behavior "off" like a toggle, so that YOU can move closer to IT and put stuff on or take it off. I don't think you can direct the FD to come to you to do this.

4) While I don't think this is clear from the rules at all, I further believe that the FD follows at an interval of 5' or does not follow at all, period. That is, no following at 1 foot, 10 feet, etc. I think of it as a toggle. Follow or don't. Of course if you turn the following off, move 10' away, and turn following back on, it will stay 10' away because it moves at your speed, but I don't see you having the FD follow at less than 5', and following at more than 5' is based on putting extra distance between you while following is off and then reinstating following.

5) Note that "The disk also winks out if you move beyond range or try to take the disk more than 3 feet away from the surface beneath it." Notice the very conspicuous absence of the condition "or try to direct/take it beyond range" in this sentence. Two conditions are mentioned. One is YOU moving beyond range. The other is trying to TAKE (not MOVE) the disk more than 3 ft from the surface. To me this clearly indicates that the disk only moves by following you. You cannot even TRY to move it more than 3 ft from the surface, but if you try to TAKE it there (by moving more than 3 ft from the surface yourself), it's gone. And if you move beyond range, it's gone, but not if you move IT beyond range, because you CAN'T, since you cannot direct it to move, only to follow.

6) As an aside, I would and have allowed the FD to be used for self-transportation IF someone else did the pulling. In this case, following is turned off and the caster climbs on. The FD won't move on its own, but someone else can pull it. I only wish the rules gave guidelines on what it's like for someone to try and push or pull the disk (this is relevant regardless of your opinion on personal transpo functionality). The stuff on the disk has its full weight, but there is less friction pulling the disk along in the air than if the disk were somehow on the floor for you to drag.

7) I really really like brento766's wagon analogy. Given my (nonauthoritative) views on the 5' following interval, I would modify it only by arguing that there is a length of string tied to the wagon equal to Range, and your options are to grasp the string at your current distance, or hold it slack. If you move back to the wagon, you have to take back your slack. Also, you cannot hold the string less than 5' from it. If you ungrasp the string and move beyond the length of the string (Range), you lose hold of the string altogether and the wagon is lost to you. You can hop in the wagon but then it doesn't go anywhere unless someone else pulls it (but they of course can't access your string).

 

[Xael]

I have ALWAYS thought that the MAIN USE for the spell was to use it as a cool riding device. Who cares about some stupid heavy loads, my Wizards (and Wizards in my games) travel in style.

 

[Rel]

I have ALWAYS thought that the MAIN USE for the spell was to use it as a cool riding device. Who cares about some stupid heavy loads, my Wizards (and Wizards in my games) travel in style.

Well that would seem to obviate the need for the Mount spell, wouldn't it?

 

[Caliban]

Well that would seem to obviate the need for the Mount spell, wouldn't it?

Given that the disk is limited to the wizards normal move, and doesn't fly or waterwalk, I really don't think so.

 

[Vahktang]

I have ALWAYS thought that the MAIN USE for the spell was to use it as a cool riding device. Who cares about some stupid heavy loads, my Wizards (and Wizards in my games) travel in style.

_MY_ wizard traveled with stuff.
Had the platform (mentioned above) built with a lip so it wouldn't tilt off.
Held all the party extra rations, extra arrows, firewood, pavilions (not just two man tents for us), etc, etc.

And when we found 200 lbs of silver, we didn't have to leave it behind because of weight considerations, just pile it on the disk.
Armor and weapons from the fallen, pile it on.
Worked well for me.

More later,

Vahktang

 

[Shard O'Glase]

I've always allowed it to be used as transport.

1. Its not useful so who cares.
2. nothing says no.
3. I have nothing against creative uses of spells.
4. it may not be its intended purpose but so what, lots of spells can and should be used for non intended purposes. I mean if someone said the plan is I'll cast a fireball striaght up as a signal flare for when the party should strike, would you turn around and say the intended purpose of fireball is blasting people not being a signal flare it just wont work.


And besides I got more milleage out of getting a tower shield with specially made strap to attach to a FD, and getting a mobile cover platform.(at least in 3e, can't remember what tower shields do in 3.5)

 

[KarinsDad]

1. Its not useful so who cares.
2. nothing says no.
3. I have nothing against creative uses of spells.
4. it may not be its intended purpose but so what, lots of spells can and should be used for non intended purposes. I mean if someone said the plan is I'll cast a fireball striaght up as a signal flare for when the party should strike, would you turn around and say the intended purpose of fireball is blasting people not being a signal flare it just wont work.

The point, though, is that this is not a matter of using a spell in creative ways.

It's about giving a spell functionality which is not specified within the spell description.

This is like allowing the Fly spell to fly underwater. The spell does not explicitly disallow it, so it is allowed?

Everyone knows the intent of the world "fly". Everyone knows the intent of the word "follows".

This is not ambiguous, people are mostly just wanting to allow it because PCs do not use Floating Disc that often (although the wizard in my campaign likes using it).

If you want a transport spell, create it.