Question for Psionic rules experts Re: psionic monsters

[DizzyKungFu]

It should have Quicken Spell-Like Ability. Quicken Power is completely inappropriate, and unuseable anyways, because it doesn't even posses any true powers. It only possesses psionics as a spell-like ability.

That's exactly what I was asking about. Is there errata that clears this up anywhere? I looked at the WotC Psi Handbook errata before posting here because I was afraid I was missing something obvious, but I didn't find anything. Am I the only one who got confused as to how creatures without PPs can use feats that require PPs? Was there something simple that I missed?

So, just so I'm clear (Quickening aside), for things like Psychic Bastion and Mind Trap we are just supposed to assume are "always on" or that the creature doesn't have to pay anything to use it?

 

[kreynolds]

That's exactly what I was asking about. Is there errata that clears this up anywhere?

Not that I'm aware of.

Was there something simple that I missed?

If a feat requires power points to use, and the creature with the feat doesn't have any power points, then it can't use the feat. If the designers truly intended for the Cerebrilith to use Quicken Power for free as much as it wants, then that's one thing. However, going by the rules as written, it simply can't use them. It gets to use its psionics (sp) freely, without needing power points, but the rules say nothing about it being able to do that with feats. Even spell-like abilities can't use metamagic feats like normal.

So, just so I'm clear (Quickening aside), things like Psychic Bastion and Mind Trap we are just supposed to assume are "always on" or that the creature doesn't have to pay anything to use it?

According to the rules, you should assume that it can't use them at all.

 

[DizzyKungFu]

According to the rules, you should assume that it can't use them at all.

Umm... so you're saying none of its feats can actually be used by it? No offense, but that doesn't make any sense...

Can anyone else shead some light on the subject?

 

[kreynolds]

Umm... so you're saying none of its feats can actually be used by it?

Does it have any power points?

No offense, but that doesn't make any sense...

Why it can't use them makes perfect sense. Why it has them, doesn't.

 

[kreynolds]

Just found this in the FAQ...I was wrong...

&nbsp&nbsp&nbspSome psionic monsters are very powerful psionically,
but they don't use psionic power points. Can these
creatures use feats or magic items that require reserve
power points? Also, can they use feats or other things that
cost power points to use? The monster section in the
Psionics Handbook says they use psionic powers and
combat modes for free. It doesn't mention anything else,
such as psionic feats.
&nbsp&nbsp&nbspA creature has no psionic power points (reserve or
otherwise) unless it also has a psionic character class. This is
true even for creatures with the psionic template.
&nbsp&nbsp&nbspA creature always can make use of any feat or power
creature's description says it can use, and if it has the psionic
template, it can make use of the psionic abilities mentioned in
the template. If the creature's description gives it access to a
psionic feat, it can use the feat, even though it has no reserve
points. (It can use the feat even if it does not meet the feat's
prerequisites.) For example, a blue benefits from the Inertial
Armor feat even though it has no reserve power points and
can freely use the charm person, far hand, and finger of fire
powers. It also can use the ego whip, mind thrust, empty
mind, and mental barrier psionic combat modes without
expending points. The creature, however, cannot use psionic
abilities or feats that are not included in its description or in
the psionic template because it has no power points. The
creature also cannot use magic items that require a power
point reserve.

 

[DizzyKungFu]

Ah! Thanks for the research, kreynolds.

So does this mean that dkilgo is right, and a Cerebelith can use any of its psionic powers as a Quickened power every round?

 

[kreynolds]

There you go!

 

[dkilgo]

They created these creatures with feats that would assist in their abilities. I agree that it does not make any sense as to why they don't have any power points, but that should not mean that the creature should not be able to use the feats it has. You either have to allow the creature to use the psionic feats it has without power point cost, (Which means those are the only feats it can do this with. Even after gaining feats due to HD.) or put appropriate feats in place of the psionic ones. But, I am willing to just let the feats stay, and put a limit to how many times a day it can use them.

 

[kreynolds]

I agree that it does not make any sense as to why they don't have any power points, but that should not mean that the creature should not be able to use the feats it has.

It makes perfect sense. In this regard, metamagic feats are identical. To use one, you pay. Because of this, they can't be used with spell-like abilities. To use metapsionic feats, you have to pay. Even given this, you can still use them with spell-like abilities. Huh? There's a cost balance there for metamagic, but psionics doesn't have one at all. Creatures that use magical spell-like abilities don't get jack for metamagic feats most of the time, and if they get anything out of it (such as Quicken Spell-Like Ability), it isn't a full payload like psionics. With psionics, you get a plethora of power that you didn't pay for, and it doesn't work out well at all.

I think somebody slipped on the soap and banged their head during the development of the psionic monsters.

 

[DizzyKungFu]

...With psionics, you get a plethora of power that you didn't pay for, and it doesn't work out well at all.

I think somebody slipped on the soap and banged their head during the development of the psionic monsters.

If you look at the top, that's what I said at the beginning. The Cerebelith seemed extremely powerful for being able to use any one of its powers as a Quickened action each round for free, and also use Mind Trap and Psychic Bastion for free. Definitely seems a little unbalanced, so I guess I agree with kreynolds. However, the FAQ *IS* pretty clear...