Question from one of my PbP Players (TWF & Natural Attack)

[Angel Tarragon]

I need help with this:

I am making a Two Weapon Fighting Ranger, but Natural Attacks are not counted in TWF. However, Unarmed Strikes are. Would it be possible to just use TWF for his Claws, and still take the full -5 penalty for his Bite? Or alternately, would it be possible to just substitute TWF with Multi Attack, and then Improved Multi Attack?

 

[skelso]

MULTIATTACK [GENERAL]

Prerequisite: Three or more natural attacks.

Benefit: The creature’s secondary attacks with natural weapons take only a –2 penalty.

Normal: Without this feat, the creature’s secondary attacks with natural weapons take a –5 penalty.

Normally, if a creature (or player) has natural attacks like claws and bite, they can automatically make the two claw attacks without penalty, followed by the bite at -5

-OR-

They get the bite without penalty and make the two claw attacks at -5 each.

Multiattack drops that penalty to -2. I don't think you have to take a feat to get the claw attacks and bite, so long as you can live with the -5 on the secondary attack.

I'm pretty sure TWF is completely unnecessary for natural attacks.

I may be wrong about that, though.

It would help if I knew what sort of creature this PC is that gets claws and bite, or what spell he's using to give him those if he doesn't have them naturally.

 

[Angel Tarragon]

It would help if I knew what sort of creature this PC is that gets claws and bite, or what spell he's using to give him those if he doesn't have them naturally.

Modified SRD gargoyle.

 

[skelso]

Not sure about that guy, but I got this from the SRD:
http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/monsters.html

Full Attack

This line shows all the physical attacks the creature makes when it uses a full-round action to make a full attack. It gives the number of attacks along with the weapon, attack bonus, and form of attack (melee or ranged). The first entry is for the creature’s primary weapon, with an attack bonus including modifications for size and Strength (for melee attacks) or Dexterity (for ranged attacks). A creature with the Weapon Finesse feat can use its Dexterity modifier on melee attacks. The remaining weapons are secondary, and attacks with them are made with a –5 penalty to the attack roll, no matter how many there are. Creatures with the Multiattack feat take only a –2 penalty on secondary attacks. The damage that each attack deals is noted parenthetically. Damage from an attack is always at least 1 point, even if a subtraction from a die roll reduces the result to 0 or lower.

A creature’s primary attack damage includes its full Strength modifier (1-1/2 times its Strength bonus if the attack is with the creature’s sole natural weapon) and is given first. Secondary attacks add only 1/2 the creature’s Strength bonus and are given second in the parentheses.

If any attacks also have some special effect other than damage, that information is given here.

Unless noted otherwise, creatures using natural weapons deal double damage on critical hits.

This seems to say that the first entry in the full attack line is the creatures primary attack, which it can make without penalty and adding 1.5 * Str to the damage. All other attacks take a -5 penalty to the roll and only add half Str to damage.

If you take Multi-attack, that penalty drops to -2.

I'm convinced that if a creature has natural attacks, the TWF feats can't be used and you don't get iterative attacks with natural weapons. I know dragons certainly don't.

 

[Hypersmurf]

This seems to say that the first entry in the full attack line is the creatures primary attack, which it can make without penalty and adding 1.5 * Str to the damage.

Only if it has no other natural weapons. If it has multiple natural weapons, it's only Str bonus to damage (not 1.5) with the primary.

-Hyp.

 

[nick012000]

It is possible to combine TWF with natual attacks, though the TWF feat does not apply to them.

Just get a tail blade from Savage Species and a level of Monk, and TWF with them, while making your normal Claw/Claw/Bite natural attack routine as secondary natural weapons, as is normal when you combine natual attacks with manufactured weapons.