Question of Gaming Business Revnue??
- Thread starter Gallo22
- Start date
gordonknox
First Post
It would be interesting to know what types of margins are made on these products.
Treebore
First Post
Go to Hasbro's website, look for links to "about them" or similiar links. Anything that looks like it may tell you such info. I get the info because I own 15 measily shares, so I get stock reports.
Profit margin? I know that the retailer gets about 40% of the full price. WOTC themselves get anywhere from 20 to 40% of the full price, depending on distribution agreements.
How much of their respective cuts is actually profit? depends on the volume of sales.
Profit margin? I know that the retailer gets about 40% of the full price. WOTC themselves get anywhere from 20 to 40% of the full price, depending on distribution agreements.
How much of their respective cuts is actually profit? depends on the volume of sales.
Actually, although WotC is a high hundred-million dollar company, most of that revenue comes from collectible card games and novels, not from role-playing games.
ICv2 made the first true comprehensive study of the hobby/game market for 2002 calendar year and the results may surprise and sadden you. Here's an except:
"CCGs is the largest single category in the games business, and despite the decline of Pokemon, the market for CCGs is still robust, at around $750 million at retail in 2002, thanks largely to the rise of Yu-Gi-Oh! and the continued strength of the classic Magic brand from Wizards of the Coast. The rapid development of the Collectible Miniatures Game category created by WizKids has also helped to fuel the market for miniature games, which was probably around $170 million at retail in 2002. The subset of board games carried by pop culture retailers is difficult to quantify, although that market definitely grew substantially in 2002. One of the most surprising findings for us was the relatively small size of the roleplaying game market, at only around $35 million retail."
Only $35 million! That's the extent of the ENTIRE pen-and-paper role-playing game industry. That's the estimated value of ALL role-playing game books sold at the retail level. And people think that the comic book business is struggling. The RPG market dreams of being as big as the comic book market. I'm gonna say it again, $35 million!
Take those $35 million and divide it among ALL retailers, distributors, and publishers or RPG material and you are not going to be rolling in dough. You will count yourself lucky if you are making a living at it. Most likely than not, if you are not one of the big boys (WotC, White Wolf, Green Ronin, Mongoose, Fantasy Flight, Malhavoc, Steve Jackson Games, or AEG), or if you do not have a fan-favorite designer/writer in your corner, you are going to be struggling.
You need *primary* sources of revenue like collectible card games, collectible miniature games, novels, or licensing/brand deals to subsidise your *secondary* role-playing game products. Kind of like the Hollywood studios produce huge summer blockbuster movies to subsidise smaller independent artsy films.
It's sad but true. I wish it were different. I wish nothing more than for comic books to be as popular as they are in Japan and for the pen-and-paper RPG industry to be as big as Hollywood, but that's not going to happen. I'm not trying to bring you down or discourage you but if you take the plunge, I want you to jump with your eyes open. Some of us gamers are so insular and love our hobby so much that we blind ourselves to the reality that our passion is a niche-market.
That's why I have little sympathy for those that complain about WotC coming out with the 3.5 revision so soon or tying it too closely to their up-coming miniature line or accusing WotC for being moneygrubbers. With such thin profit margins and such small amount of revenue, I don't blame them.
Call me a tool of the corporate machine and I know not all of us have the means to do so, but thankfully I have the resources to buy two-copies of the core rulebooks. I would rather buy two copies and risk lining WotC pockets for nothing, than risk the RPG industry wither because I didn't.
I remember the Summer of '97. I remember going to the game store for the new issue of DRAGON and not fiding it. I remember going there looking for it the week after that and the week after that. I remember going week after week to see what new products TSR would be selling that month and not finding any. I remember asking the store-owner how come there were no new TSR products on the New Releases shelf and him shrugging his shoulders and saying that he wasn't receiving any TSR shipments and his calls went unanswered.
I remember when TSR when bankrupt. I remember the long night before WotC stepped in, bought TSR and saved D&D. However it happened. Whatever the reason. I don't want that to happen again.
ICv2 made the first true comprehensive study of the hobby/game market for 2002 calendar year and the results may surprise and sadden you. Here's an except:
"CCGs is the largest single category in the games business, and despite the decline of Pokemon, the market for CCGs is still robust, at around $750 million at retail in 2002, thanks largely to the rise of Yu-Gi-Oh! and the continued strength of the classic Magic brand from Wizards of the Coast. The rapid development of the Collectible Miniatures Game category created by WizKids has also helped to fuel the market for miniature games, which was probably around $170 million at retail in 2002. The subset of board games carried by pop culture retailers is difficult to quantify, although that market definitely grew substantially in 2002. One of the most surprising findings for us was the relatively small size of the roleplaying game market, at only around $35 million retail."
Only $35 million! That's the extent of the ENTIRE pen-and-paper role-playing game industry. That's the estimated value of ALL role-playing game books sold at the retail level. And people think that the comic book business is struggling. The RPG market dreams of being as big as the comic book market. I'm gonna say it again, $35 million!
Take those $35 million and divide it among ALL retailers, distributors, and publishers or RPG material and you are not going to be rolling in dough. You will count yourself lucky if you are making a living at it. Most likely than not, if you are not one of the big boys (WotC, White Wolf, Green Ronin, Mongoose, Fantasy Flight, Malhavoc, Steve Jackson Games, or AEG), or if you do not have a fan-favorite designer/writer in your corner, you are going to be struggling.
You need *primary* sources of revenue like collectible card games, collectible miniature games, novels, or licensing/brand deals to subsidise your *secondary* role-playing game products. Kind of like the Hollywood studios produce huge summer blockbuster movies to subsidise smaller independent artsy films.
It's sad but true. I wish it were different. I wish nothing more than for comic books to be as popular as they are in Japan and for the pen-and-paper RPG industry to be as big as Hollywood, but that's not going to happen. I'm not trying to bring you down or discourage you but if you take the plunge, I want you to jump with your eyes open. Some of us gamers are so insular and love our hobby so much that we blind ourselves to the reality that our passion is a niche-market.
That's why I have little sympathy for those that complain about WotC coming out with the 3.5 revision so soon or tying it too closely to their up-coming miniature line or accusing WotC for being moneygrubbers. With such thin profit margins and such small amount of revenue, I don't blame them.
Call me a tool of the corporate machine and I know not all of us have the means to do so, but thankfully I have the resources to buy two-copies of the core rulebooks. I would rather buy two copies and risk lining WotC pockets for nothing, than risk the RPG industry wither because I didn't.
I remember the Summer of '97. I remember going to the game store for the new issue of DRAGON and not fiding it. I remember going there looking for it the week after that and the week after that. I remember going week after week to see what new products TSR would be selling that month and not finding any. I remember asking the store-owner how come there were no new TSR products on the New Releases shelf and him shrugging his shoulders and saying that he wasn't receiving any TSR shipments and his calls went unanswered.
I remember when TSR when bankrupt. I remember the long night before WotC stepped in, bought TSR and saved D&D. However it happened. Whatever the reason. I don't want that to happen again.
TalonComics
First Post
Treebore said:
And that was Pokemon followed by 3E. Those days are long, long gone. If I were to guess, I'd say WotC is worth probably half of that or less at this point.
I'm really curious how 3.5 will pan out followed by the "collectible" miniature game. Should be an interesting 4th quarter!
~D
You can find that ICv2 article here
http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/2489.html
http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/2489.html
Keith Strohm
First Post
Bluemoon said:
While my personal experience indicates that the RPG business at retail was higher than $35 million during the last few years I was active in it, I'd have to say that it wasn't a whole lot higher. I think if you took a look at it globally you might arrive at a $40-$50m number.
Keith Strohm
Game Industry Lay-About
Welcome out of Lurkerdom, Keith! Similar Threads
