Question on Errata, or How to Make an Invincable NPC

[SylverFlame]

Okay, I was looking at the Monters of Faerun book recently and I noticed something. THe Curst template is rather nice. First, it's darn near impossible to kill. It has regeneration, is undead so subdual damage is voided (also immune to all forms of turn/rebuke), and the only way to make it permanently gone is to hit it with Remove Curse, which it can likely save against with SR 12+level and a Will save.

Then I noticed the really scary thing. (I'd like to note here that I have found NO errata on this on WotC's site) THe regeneration ability outlines lethal damage in the creatures write up. In the Curst's case NOTHING is listed as lethal. As such, all damage is immediately converted to subdual and voided as the Curst is undead.

So there you go. An invincable creature, unless someone has found errata. If anyone can think of a way around this invincability, please say so. Just remember, Curst's are undead, and they also have a full Fire and Cold immunity. Thanks.

 

[Caliban]

Okay, I was looking at the Monters of Faerun book recently and I noticed something. THe Curst template is rather nice. First, it's darn near impossible to kill. It has regeneration, is undead so subdual damage is voided (also immune to all forms of turn/rebuke), and the only way to make it permanently gone is to hit it with Remove Curse, which it can likely save against with SR 12+level and a Will save.

Then I noticed the really scary thing. (I'd like to note here that I have found NO errata on this on WotC's site) THe regeneration ability outlines lethal damage in the creatures write up. In the Curst's case NOTHING is listed as lethal. As such, all damage is immediately converted to subdual and voided as the Curst is undead.

So there you go. An invincable creature, unless someone has found errata. If anyone can think of a way around this invincability, please say so. Just remember, Curst's are undead, and they also have a full Fire and Cold immunity. Thanks.

Disintegrate will do it.

Bind them in chains they can't break and bury them.

Planeshift them somewhere unpleasant.

Teleport them somewhere.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

This is completely beside the point, and I'm not trying to be rude, merely informative:

Invincible is spelled with an 'i'.

 

[James McMurray]

Disintegrate will do it.

Not if you're playing 3.5, necause disintigrate now does damage.

I would house rule that the regeneration is actually fast healing. No undead should have regeneration, unless perhaps its an Epic undead.

Alternatively you can use the FAQ entry for Favor of Ilmater: if something would convert normal damage to nonlethal damage but you are immune to nonlethal damage, the conversion doesn't happen.

With that ruling, all damage that a Curst takes would be lethal damage.

 

[Gwarok]

I was always fuzzy on why they made two things that do the same thing essentially? Fast healing and regen are silly. Regen converting damage to subdual is silly. Make a golem with regen and you have the same thing. Were they trying to say you werent doing any REAL damage when you cut off that trolls' arm? Silly.

 

[Caliban]

Not if you're playing 3.5, necause disintigrate now does damage.

Curst is a 3.0 template, and he didn't say he was using 3.5 rules.

 

[James McMurray]

Regen and Fast healing are just ways to seperate the two types of abilities.

Regen allows the reattachment of lopped off limbs (or regrowth of them). It also makes you A LOT harder to kill. Fast healing just makes you harder to kill.

Its no sillier than hurling fireballs or being hit with 50 arrows and not dying.

Curst is a 3.0 template, and he didn't say he was using 3.5 rules.

Quite true. Hence my use of the word if.

 

[Bauglir]

Fast healing means you get back a certain amount of hit points per round.

Regeneration means that all but a few specific attack forms (eg fire and acid for the troll) deal subdual damage to you, which you regenerate each round (note that if the right damage form is applied you take lethal damage which does not get regenerated)

So in other words, no matter how tiny the pieces you cut a troll into they will always reform and get back up again a while later unless you apply fire or acid.

If they had fast healing however, then cutting them into little pieces would indeed kill them.

 

[AuraSeer]

I was always fuzzy on why they made two things that do the same thing essentially?

They don't do the same thing.
Fast healing just repairs damage; you heal fast, but still actually get wounded when hit. Just like a regular human, you'll die if a wound is serious enough to kill you before you can heal it. For instance, destroying your brain (by CDG perhaps) will kill you outright.

Regenerating creatures don't actually get hurt by ordinary damage. It may slow them down a little, but has no lasting effect. They will not die from CDG, death attack, or massive damage, unless the attack is one that will do lethal damage. Bash in the head of a sleeping troll, and all you've done is wake it up mad.

Were they trying to say you werent doing any REAL damage when you cut off that trolls' arm?

Yes, exactly. Hacking a troll with weapons is like slapping a human across the face; it's annoying, and maybe painful, but it doesn't do any real harm. Chop off its arm, stick your dagger in its eye, cut the whole beast into nine bloody chunks, it won't care very much. It'll be perfectly fine in a couple of minutes.

Think of Tony Shalhoub's character in Men In Black. Gets his head blasted clean off, and all he does is complain that it stings.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Okay, I was looking at the Monters of Faerun book recently and I noticed something. THe Curst template is rather nice. First, it's darn near impossible to kill. It has regeneration, is undead so subdual damage is voided (also immune to all forms of turn/rebuke), and the only way to make it permanently gone is to hit it with Remove Curse, which it can likely save against with SR 12+level and a Will save.

Apart from the fact that the creator of this didn't really think things through, I've seen this basic issue addressed many times before (wasn't the retriever the first case?)

The answer which is obvious to me is that as an undead it is immune to subdual damage (being punched, sapped, attempts to knock it out etc) HOWEVER because of its regeneration all lethal damage is treated as per the subdual damage MECHANISM.

Sometimes we have to supply brains when a designer accidentally neglects something.