Question on scribing scrolls and brew potions

[IceBear]

Ok, last night during our session the sorcerer and I wanted to craft some scrolls and potions for our upcoming battle with a dragon. I was planning on creating two scrolls each of Protection from Elements, but my DM ruled that I had to declare the element being protected against by the scrolls as I was scribing them (the reports stated that it was a red dragon, but my DM is the sort that it might have been a mutant blue or something else, so I didn't want to lock myself into Protection from Fire scrolls). Likewise, the sorcerer was making potions of Alter Self and he stated she had to decide the form the potion was to provide before she made them.

Is this right? I thought scrolls were, basically, spell completion items and thus the type of element could be decided at the time the scroll is read.

IceBear

 

[Zhure]

If memory serves, the potion's effect has to be declared in advance, but the scroll's does not.

One is use activated (potion) the other is spell completion (scroll).

Greg

 

[IceBear]

That's what I thought.

Though a Potion of Alter Self where the form was decided for you in advance seems pretty limited. Actually, I thought with Alter Self you could keep changing forms for as long as the spell was in effect, so picking a form in advance is meaningless.

IceBear

 

[Zhure]

That's what I thought.

Though a Potion of Alter Self where the form was decided for you in advance seems pretty limited. Actually, I thought with Alter Self you could keep changing forms for as long as the spell was in effect, so picking a form in advance is meaningless.

IceBear

It is and it isn't. As a technicality, Alter Self's initial form has to be chosen by the brewer. Thereafter, once the spell is in effect on the imbiber, th drinker can change it as he wants.

Greg

 

[Madfox]

I have checked both the descriptions of polymorph self and alter self on the SRD. The alter self spell does not mention the wizard can alter forms after the spell is cast, while the polymorph self spell specificly mentions this ability. This shows me that once a form is chosen with alter self the caster is more or less stuck with that form.

As far as scrolls and potions are concerned, I agree with the majority. With potions you determine everything as if you had cast the spell, while with scrolls the details of range, target and energy type can still be selected.

 

[Moon_Goddess]

Actually Alter Self speciffically says "Once the new form is chosen, it remains for the duration of the spell."

So it's pretty clear that you get one change per casting, this is why the druid's alter self at will is so powerful.

 

[IceBear]

Ok, I was going off of memory for Alter Self instead of checking SRD. Me bad!

I guess I had the mindset that an Alter Self potion allowed you to drink it and then choose the form you wish to take upon drinking it (as opposed to choosing the form when brewing it). Maybe that's another of my holdovers from 2nd Edition.

I guess in published adventures, if there is a potion of alter self it would have to have the form listed after it?

IceBear

 

[Zhure]

Mea culpa. Also doing it from memory.
Greg

 

[karooba]

Polymorph Self has been changed in Tome and Blood. This version is now the official one. It doesn't allow the caster to alter his form after casting the spell.