Question on the "Empower" metamagic feat

[NewJeffCT]

This is the descriptor from Empower Power (the psionic version), but it is essentially the same as the one that applies to arcane & divine magic, just the descriptor runs longer here.

You can empower a power. All variable, numeric effects of an empowered power are increased by one-half. An empowered power deals half again as much damage as normal, cures half again as many hit points, affects half again as many targets, and so forth, as appropriate. Augmented powers can also be empowered (multiply 1-1/2 times the damage total of the augmented power). Saving throws and opposed checks (such as the one you make when you manifest dispel psionics) are not affected, nor are powers without random variables.

Would "targets" also refer to the number of people you take in a teleport spell? Meaning, if you normally can teleport 1 person every 3 levels (or 4 people at 12th level) would the caster/manifester then be able to teleport 6 people instead of 4 at 12th level? Or, would that not count as a variable numeric effect?

 

[Runestar]

Seems like a case of deja va (didn't a similar question come up some time back?), but whatever...

Variable here simply refers to anything involving the roll of a dice.

Since the number of people teleport can transport is a constant (in that it is directly based off your caster lv, and does not involve rolling any dice), it would not be affected by empower.

Conversely, if the number of people had been something like 1d6+(caster lv/4), then yes, empower spell would affect it.

 

[NewJeffCT]

Seems like a case of deja va (didn't a similar question come up some time back?), but whatever...

Variable here simply refers to anything involving the roll of a dice.

Since the number of people teleport can transport is a constant (in that it is directly based off your caster lv, and does not involve rolling any dice), it would not be affected by empower.

Conversely, if the number of people had been something like 1d6+(caster lv/4), then yes, empower spell would affect it.

Thanks, that is what I thought.

 

[allenw]

Seems like a case of deja va (didn't a similar question come up some time back?), but whatever...

Variable here simply refers to anything involving the roll of a dice.

Since the number of people teleport can transport is a constant (in that it is directly based off your caster lv, and does not involve rolling any dice), it would not be affected by empower.

Conversely, if the number of people had been something like 1d6+(caster lv/4), then yes, empower spell would affect it.

To further clarify: If I'm not mistaken, if the number was 1d6+(caster lvl/4), the "1d6" would be multiplied by 1.5, but the "(caster lvl/4)" would not.

 

[allenw]

Although, per a (non-SRD) example in the Player's Handbook, an Empowered Magic Missile does (1d4+1)x1.5 damage. But I don't know if a "+ per caster level" would also be multiplied.

 

[NewJeffCT]

To further clarify: If I'm not mistaken, if the number was 1d6+(caster lvl/4), the "1d6" would be multiplied by 1.5, but the "(caster lvl/4)" would not.

Thanks - is this in the SRD, explaining that variable in Empower means when you have to roll the dice?

 

[akbearfoot]

The total number is empowered in the example given.

1d6+1/4 caster levels. Say the caster level is 8. The final number would be (1d6+2)x1.5. Not (1d6x1.5)+2

As long as there is a die roll involved, the whole thing counts as an 'variable numeric effect'. This has been discussed many many times on the forums.


The example in the PHB for magic missile implicitly proves that interpretation.


10th caster level Empowered Ray of Enfeeblment = (1d6+5)x1.5 or 9-16 str penalty.


I don't know any powers or spells off hand that affect a random # of targets. But I do know there are some that affect a random # of hit dice, which would be empowerable.

 

[frankthedm]

The total number is empowered in the example given.

1d6+1/4 caster levels. Say the caster level is 8. The final number would be (1d6+2)x1.5. Not (1d6x1.5)+2

As long as there is a die roll involved, the whole thing counts as an 'variable numeric effect'. This has been discussed many many times on the forums.


The example in the PHB for magic missile implicitly proves that interpretation.


10th caster level Empowered Ray of Enfeeblment = (1d6+5)x1.5 or 9-16 str penalty.

Your own example shows how running empower that way is a mistake. It is right by the rules, but if interpreting it that way makes empower [+2 spell levels] stronger than maximize [+3 spell levels] for dice plus level based bonus spells then I fell there is a mistake.

 

[akbearfoot]

Take the Poison spell for example....Empowered it might still only deal 1 pt of constitution damage with only a 4 in 10 chance to deal 10 or more....Maximized it will always deal 10.


It's a toss-up and really depends on play style. I have always liked empower more. But I know plenty of people who still take Maximize over empower because they don't want to rely on random chance.

 

[milo]

It will change case by case as to which one is more powerful. Most of the time Maximize will give you a better result.
With a fireball or other spell that is all determined from rolling dice you have to roll 4 or better on all dice for empower to be equal or better.
With the Ray of Enfeeblement case if you roll a 1 or a 2 you do worse, but if you roll higher than that you get a better result.
You just have to know which spell you use them with for a better result.
It changes slightly with some abilities though. A warmage is better off with empower IMO, especially with a high int and extra edge feat.
I had a warmage/argent savant who used an empowered thunderlance to great effect on many occasions. Wielding it 2-handed with a 22 in charisma and a 16 int was doing (3D6+18)x1.5.