[Question, T&B] Mage of the Arcane Order

[Eraslin]

Hello all,
I was just looking at the Mage of the Arcane Order prestige class in Tome & Blood. I've a question, does a Mage of the Arcane Order, who multiclassed from a wizard, gain the usual 2 new spells at level up? Obviously, if the character were to take a wizard level the answer would be in the positive. But, what about when increasing the prestige class level?

The way the class is currently written, my guess would be that, no, the character does not gain the two new spells. But, in a lot of ways that really doesn't make sense given the standard justification for the wizard's two new spells (being that they're gained through independant research). Why would a wizard suddenly decide to halt his/her independant research into new spells?

This would probably be a good application for a house rule...

Thanks,
Eraslin

 

[Crothian]

No, they don't get them. They are spending there free time doing other things like learning the abilities of the class.

 

[Cyraneth]

That has actually been up for debate earlier, and IIRC the Sage mentioned that all spellcasting classes that prepare and use spells like the wizard class gain spells when they level up. Otherwise an assassin without ranks in Spellcraft (which is a cross-class skill to them) would have a hard time gaining any benefit from his spellcasting abilities.

- Cyraneth

 

[hong]

That has actually been up for debate earlier, and IIRC the Sage mentioned that all spellcasting classes that prepare and use spells like the wizard class gain spells when they level up.

The same also applies for spontaneous spellcasters, ie sorcs and bards (and shugenja).

 

[dvvega]

According to the +1 Casting Level description, they do not get their 2 spells per level.

However, they are Mages of the Arcane Order. They have a lot of resources. I would say they could easily gain 2 spells per level simply by going to a local chapterhouse for training (assuming you have training periods, and not instant levelling).

IMC that is how the Arcane Orders in my world work.

As for spontaneous casters, I don't think many of them would join an arcane order anyway, since they don't study magic, they just "know it".

 

[hong]

According to the +1 Casting Level description, they do not get their 2 spells per level.

I'm pretty sure that the Sage has mentioned that "+1 caster level" also gives you extra spells known, whether you're a wizard or sorc or whatever.

As for spontaneous casters, I don't think many of them would join an arcane order anyway, since they don't study magic, they just "know it".

That is surely a world-specific convention.

 

[dvvega]

Hong: there is a big difference between spells known and spells added to your spellbook as was mentioned in the start of this thread.

Sorcerers develop knowledge of new spells every spellcasting level, however Wizards do not. They just develop the ability to cast more spells. They add 2 spells to their spellbooks for free due to research while training etc.

As for the rigorous study of magic, Sorcerers are born with magic in their blood (according to any flavour text I've read about them in the PHB and Tome and Blood), whereas a Wizard studies the mechanics of the way magic was created.

This is reflected in the fact that Sorcerers can just call up any spell they know and cast it, as opposed to having to prepare them at the start of the day, but they're limited in the number of spells they know, while a wizard can have multiple books and learn any spell in them.

Most sorcerers wouldn't (actually reall couldn't) belong to a Wizard's Guild in any great capacity. They can't really add spells to their spellbooks and so forth.

 

[hong]

As for the rigorous study of magic, Sorcerers are born with magic in their blood (according to any flavour text I've read about them in the PHB and Tome and Blood), whereas a Wizard studies the mechanics of the way magic was created.

This is reflected in the fact that Sorcerers can just call up any spell they know and cast it, as opposed to having to prepare them at the start of the day, but they're limited in the number of spells they know, while a wizard can have multiple books and learn any spell in them.

Most sorcerers wouldn't (actually reall couldn't) belong to a Wizard's Guild in any great capacity. They can't really add spells to their spellbooks and so forth.

Flavour text is dispensable. The exact mechanic by which a spellcaster gains and casts spells doesn't have to have anything to do with the in-game rationale for why they can do so. The maho-tsukai from OA is an example of a sorcerer-lookalike that gains powers through research into evil lore, not through any innate affinity with the Dark Side.

In my next campaign, I'm planning on having only two arcane spellcaster classes: the bard and the sorcerer (aka "mage"). In-game, mages master their spells through research and study, much like wizards in regular D&D. Mechanically, though, they still gain and cast spells as per the sorc class. It isn't that hard to think of the study that mages put in as advancing their class level, thus increasing how many spells they know and how much power they command. And having a single mechanic for arcane spellcasters simplifies things quite a bit.

I'm toying with the idea of basing the max. spell level on Int, and all other features (bonus spells/day, save DC) on Cha. I also want to keep tweaks to a minimum, though, and I already have quite a few other tweaks in mind.