Questions about EGG

[JacktheRabbit]

Re: Re: Re: Questions about EGG

I find it amazing that no matter how many times Tolkien has been quoted in the past saying there was no link between LOTR and WW2 people still find some excuse (subconcious inclusion) to add it in. Even when LOTR and WW2 are very different items.

Yet one word from EGG is all that is needed to make people think there is little or no LOTR influence in the design of DnD. Even though the similarities are glaringly obvious, ents anyone?

From what I gather from the preface to my collected edition of LotR, Tolkein had heard similar commentary during his lifetime, and didn't much prefer that interpetation. His introduction to the edition I picked up last year pretty much makes it clear that he didn't intentionally make an allegory of the second World War, and pointed out somethings that should have been different, had he chosen to do so.

Mind you, I think he did emulate some of that experience on a subconcious level, but I think it's the desire to see a pattern that helps us down that road.

 

[Col_Pladoh]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Questions about EGG

Yet one word from EGG is all that is needed to make people think there is little or no LOTR influence in the design of DnD. Even though the similarities are glaringly obvious, ents anyone?

Heh, and that's a stretch and a half. As I have said often, I did indeed use the JRRT yarns for inspiration for coming up with new monsters for the players to encounter. By the standard you suggest, though, a medieval bestiary is a major source of inspiration for the D&D game.

This reminds me of what a snippy yound book editor once said when we were both on a panel at a SF/game con:

"You stole dwarves from Tolkien didn't you?"

"No m'am, I stole them from the same source he did, Norse mythology."

Cheerio, Gary

BTW, in case you don't know, "ent" is the old Anglo-Saxon word for "giant." JRRT did give it something special, though, in that his versio was really unique and interesting, tree-like giants of benign nature.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Questions about EGG

I have no real desire to argue with you or anyone else about the origins of this or that source material. It really doesnt matter to me. I just find the difference of standards to be irritating. It takes a whole lot more stretching to turn WW2 into LOTR than it does to turn Ent into Treant.

Sure Ent meant giant in ancient Anglo-Saxon but unless you neutered your description of thsat mythology I see no point where the mythology mentions tree like. So when I look at Treants and Ents Occams Razor starts to take over.

But like I said I really don't care who steals from who. Absolutely origional ideas are really hard to come by.

Heh, and that's a stretch and a half. As I have said often, I did indeed use the JRRT yarns for inspiration for coming up with new monsters for the players to encounter. By the standard you suggest, though, a medieval bestiary is a major source of inspiration for the D&D game.

This reminds me of what a snippy yound book editor once said when we were both on a panel at a SF/game con:

"You stole dwarves from Tolkien didn't you?"

"No m'am, I stole them from the same source he did, Norse mythology."

Cheerio, Gary

BTW, in case you don't know, "ent" is the old Anglo-Saxon word for "giant." JRRT did give it something special, though, in that his versio was really unique and interesting, tree-like giants of benign nature.

 

[S'mon]

As for GAXMOOR, it is very much a good old action-adventure module. I expect that all those who enjoyed the likes of the G series and ToEE modules will have a lot of enjoyment from playing it.

Parts of the HALL OF MANY PANES are in that vein, some far removed from it, I think. It is something I decided to try, doing one module that has all sorts of different challenges and approaches under a single quest umbrella. In all I hope it will reflect the general tone of my old campaign, that presented in a finite setting that allows the GM to expand within it as desired and also to springboard from it to areas created personally for use after the module is played through. Play mioght well take a year, is sessions are held once a week and don't go on for a full day.

I'm looking forward to Gaxmoor a lot - that old time crunchy goodness.
Hall of Many Panes sounds like good value - I've always particularly liked this 'customisable/expandable' sort of scenario, I'll definitely consider running it after Gaxmoor (if Gaxmoor ever arrives).

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Questions about EGG

I find it amazing that no matter how many times Tolkien has been quoted in the past saying there was no link between LOTR and WW2 people still find some excuse (subconcious inclusion) to add it in. Even when LOTR and WW2 are very different items.

Yet one word from EGG is all that is needed to make people think there is little or no LOTR influence in the design of DnD. Even though the similarities are glaringly obvious, ents anyone?

Well, in my case, I don't think the WWII/LotR connection is all that great either. I just felt no need to argue that point again at this time.

As for D&D's influences, it wasn't "one word" from Gary. It was reading all the books mentioned in the DMG appendix mentioned above and some research into medieval bestiaries and the like that did it for me. If Tolkien is the only book read of those EGG cites as influences, then yeah, I guess the Tolkien influences stand out. But the influence of Jack Vance, Poul Anderson, or Michael Moorcock stand out just as plainly to me.

 

[Col_Pladoh]

I'm looking forward to Gaxmoor a lot - that old time crunchy goodness.
Hall of Many Panes sounds like good value - I've always particularly liked this 'customisable/expandable' sort of scenario, I'll definitely consider running it after Gaxmoor (if Gaxmoor ever arrives).

Well, there's a lot of action and a good deal of thinking (tactically and logically too) involved in GAXMOOR. I can say that Ernie, and Luke especially, loved zapping my PC in the playtest. In all it's a great adventure in the wilds and environs of the city--small city

There are some deadly parts therein, but I know that the main concern was to provide sufficient challenge for the group as their PCS gained levels.

The HALL' will face the same problem if the DM allows level gain while in the "mini-cosmos" that contains the pane-portals, and that's something I'll have to address.

On to other topice!

Whatever JRRT meant to convey, the fact that many persons got the impression of a WW II allegory from the story seems to indicate that there is likely some of that therein, unconsciously considering the author's remarks.

And Col_Hardisson, you forgot to mention Robert E. Howard, de Camp & Pratt, A. Merritt, HPL, Fred Saberhagen, Zelazny (JACK OF SHADOWS!), and a host of others

 

[Col_Pladoh]

Just got this URL on a review of GAXMOOR.

The comments about role-playing vs. Roll-playing amuse me, as both ignore the really operative word, "plat." Play is something that amuses one, fo hack or yak, no matter. Also the complaint about not sufficient treasure was particularly interesting, as all the players whined about that. As in the same breath, virtually, the reviewer also mentions rapid level rise (from the combat), why the need for treasure?

Anyway, here's the URL:

http://www.gamingreport.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Reviews&file=index&req=showcontent&id=210

Ciao,
Gary

 

[optimizer]

Howdy!

GAXMOOR sounds better everytime I hear someone talk about it. I have a copy -- I just need to find the time to read it, then find a party of adventurers to hack through it! I can't wait to tackle this one.

Mike

 

[Col_Pladoh]

Mike, of course I am interested in seeing how others think me laddy boys did with the module.

I posted over on Dragonsfoot boards in the OAD&D section to check there. One chap was going to use it thus, another with theHackmaster system, there was an LA game about to use it... Seems to me those who picked it up are worried not about the system but just want to play the adventure. Made me laugh.

Fact is that it also got me thinking, and darned if I don't want to try mixed characters in my LA game, so I'm going to try GMing for Avatars and PCs--AD&D or 3E, soon, run the same adventure for all.

Gary

 

[optimizer]

Howdy!

I'd like to hear how your experiment in mixing OAD&D and LA avatars together works out - either here or at Dragonsfoot.

Best of luck.

Mike