Questions about Flails, Maces & Morningstars book

sjmiller

Explorer
Since there's not a huge amount of traffic on the official boards, I thought I would ask this here, so as to get the thoughts and opinions of you fine folk on these questions.

I’ve been reading through E.N. Arsenal – Flails, Maces & MorningStars, and I am a bit confused by some of the descriptions (or lack thereof). Under the Variants section there is a weapon called a Flail-Mace. The description of the weapon, in part, says:

The head of the mace is square-shaped with a chain link attached to the centre of each side. This chain link leads down into the interior of the shaft. When the ring is turned to unlock the head; the head springs free of the shaft and separates into four separate heads. The heads are half spheres; with the flat parts becoming the outside of the mace head. When locked as a mace; the four heads fit snugly together along their curved sides to form a cube.

The bold parts are what have me confused. I’ve tried to work this out in my head, and even tried to figure it out using some paper cutouts. Geometry seems to tell me that this description is not possible. I can see it working if the heads were diamond-shaped, triangle-shaped, or even if the outer face was rounded and each head formed a quarter of a sphere. Am I missing something here, or is the description just not practical?

I’ll skip over the Godentag, since I could spend quite some time on this. Let’s just say that the description given doesn’t match any of the archeological evidence I have seen for the weapon.

The King’s Walking Stick has me rather baffled. There seems to be no description of this at all! This is a weapon that, more than any of the others, needs a description and illustration to make it useful. Where do the pistols fit into this thing? How many pistols are there? How are they loaded?

Speaking of loading, these pistols must have some gigantic barrels if the ammunition information means anything. It says that a bag of lead shot weighs 5 pounds, and that there are 10 round per bag. That means they weigh about half a pound per shot. Since lead runs at about 0.41 pounds per cubic inch, that means each round is close to a cubic inch in size. That means the caliber of the round is, well, 1.00, and the biggest caliber musket ball I could find was in the .70 to .75 range. If the round is 1.00 caliber, that means the inside diameter of the barrel is 1 inch! That’s huge! That qualifies it as a small cannon, or possibly a mortar. It is not something one would want to hold in their hand and shoot. Unless, of course, they want to get rid of that hand and arm.

The Mace-Axe isn’t quite as confusing, but I want to make sure I am seeing this right. The weapon description says:

This strange weapon looks much like a battle axe with a half-sphere attached on either side of the axe-blade allowing the weapon to both cleave and crush.

Now, am I right in thinking that it looks rather like a ball with two axe-heads sticking out of it? So, to effectively use the mace aspect of the weapon one would turn the weapon so that you hit with the flat of the blade and the ball as well, right? Does this make sense?

I am trying really hard to like this book, but there are aspects like those described above that are making that a difficult task.
 

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sjmiller said:
Since there's not a huge amount of traffic on the official boards, I thought I would ask this here, so as to get the thoughts and opinions of you fine folk on these questions.

I’ve been reading through E.N. Arsenal – Flails, Maces & MorningStars, and I am a bit confused by some of the descriptions (or lack thereof). Under the Variants section there is a weapon called a Flail-Mace. The description of the weapon, in part, says:

The head of the mace is square-shaped with a chain link attached to the centre of each side. This chain link leads down into the interior of the shaft. When the ring is turned to unlock the head; the head springs free of the shaft and separates into four separate heads. The heads are half spheres; with the flat parts becoming the outside of the mace head. When locked as a mace; the four heads fit snugly together along their curved sides to form a cube.

The bold parts are what have me confused. I’ve tried to work this out in my head, and even tried to figure it out using some paper cutouts. Geometry seems to tell me that this description is not possible. I can see it working if the heads were diamond-shaped, triangle-shaped, or even if the outer face was rounded and each head formed a quarter of a sphere. Am I missing something here, or is the description just not practical?
Ok, I don't have the book, but I agree with you completely. Whoever wrote this is... descriptively challenged.

The King’s Walking Stick has me rather baffled. There seems to be no description of this at all! This is a weapon that, more than any of the others, needs a description and illustration to make it useful. Where do the pistols fit into this thing? How many pistols are there? How are they loaded?

Speaking of loading, these pistols must have some gigantic barrels if the ammunition information means anything. It says that a bag of lead shot weighs 5 pounds, and that there are 10 round per bag. That means they weigh about half a pound per shot. Since lead runs at about 0.41 pounds per cubic inch, that means each round is close to a cubic inch in size. That means the caliber of the round is, well, 1.00, and the biggest caliber musket ball I could find was in the .70 to .75 range. If the round is 1.00 caliber, that means the inside diameter of the barrel is 1 inch! That’s huge! That qualifies it as a small cannon, or possibly a mortar. It is not something one would want to hold in their hand and shoot. Unless, of course, they want to get rid of that hand and arm.
The only pistols in a walking stick that I'm aware of are single shots. Usually muzzle loaders. The cane handle is the grip of the pistol, with a drop-down trigger. They tend to be short ranged, not terribly accurate and less than 100% reliable.

Yeah, it sure sounds like one hefty round! However, never underestmate what you can shoot out of a pistol. Back a couple of decades ago there was a mini fad for pistols that fired .50 calibre machine gun rounds. (These were in demand by serious gun handlers.)

The Mace-Axe isn’t quite as confusing, but I want to make sure I am seeing this right.

Now, am I right in thinking that it looks rather like a ball with two axe-heads sticking out of it? So, to effectively use the mace aspect of the weapon one would turn the weapon so that you hit with the flat of the blade and the ball as well, right? Does this make sense?

I am trying really hard to like this book, but there are aspects like those described above that are making that a difficult task.
I'm not sure about that one either. Again, the description is far from clear!
 
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The King’s Walking Stick has me rather baffled.

If this is the weapon I'm thinking of, I think I saw one in the Tower of London. It looked like the morningstar from the Baldur's Gate games - a square, blockey head on a haft, with vertical lines of knobs down each of the four faces of the head. Each of those knobs was a little pipe- I figure they were loaded like muskets. Not sure how it was fired... maybe there was a trigger (I don't remember seeing one), or perhaps the impact set it off.

Talk about adding insult to injury. Or, in this case, adding injury to injury.

The Mace-Axe isn’t quite as confusing, but I want to make sure I am seeing this right.

The pictures I've seen of this looked like...

Imagine a ball of plasticine. Pinch it along one arc, creating a thin ridge. That was the axe blade. I don't recall ever hearing it used as a mace; I thought it was a midpoint in the evolution from mace to axe.
 

EdL said:
Yeah, it sure sounds like one hefty round! However, never underestmate what you can shoot out of a pistol. Back a couple of decades ago there was a mini fad for pistols that fired .50 calibre machine gun rounds. (These were in demand by serious gun handlers.)
A .50 calibre round is pretty big, I know, having fired a few in my time. The barrel for a gun firing one is 1/2 inch wide on the inside. That would be half the size of the rounds they describe for the weapon.

Oh, and the walking stick guns are interesting to say the least. I have fired two different ones, one using cartridges and another using blackpowder. Not hugely accurate, but sure does freak people out!
 

sjmiller said:
The bold parts are what have me confused. I’ve tried to work this out in my head, and even tried to figure it out using some paper cutouts. Geometry seems to tell me that this description is not possible. I can see it working if the heads were diamond-shaped, triangle-shaped, or even if the outer face was rounded and each head formed a quarter of a sphere. Am I missing something here, or is the description just not practical.

Hmm. I can visualize it, although I think the use of the word 'snugly' is not exactly apt, unless each of the four heads of the weapon is not the same size with the rounded sections being of a different radius. If you draw a cube on a piece of paper and then on the inside of the cube, along each of the sides of the cube, draw a half-circle, they overlap. It takes 'snugly' to the extreme. I'd imagine that the four sections are flat on the one side facing outwards, but that the inner half-circle is smaller with a diameter smaller than the length of the outside face.

Pinotage
 

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