Questions about poisons

[irdeggman]

If you are one of my players....leave now.
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Okay...now that the kids are gone....here is the scoop. There is an assasin that is trying to kill the noble they been put told by their lord to be in his entourage and protect. He is shooken up after a failed sniper attempt and the assassin is getting miffed that he keeps failing at his mission. When the noble sends for a physician to dispense with medicine (he needs something for his nerves) he instead poisons him with a variant of Dark Reaver Powder. The first symptoms takes effect 30 minutes later. He decides to lace 6 doses in the medcines he has him take. It does this

Dark Reave Powder Variant - Ingested - DC 20 - Initial is 1d6 CON + 2d6 Vitality Points- Secondary is 1d6 CON + 1d4 Wound Points.....BTW I use the Vitality and Wound Point system found in Unearthed Arcana and in the old Star Wars RPG. If you need a rough translation....treat the extra non Con damage as HP damage in the initial and in the secondary he is paralyzed with pain and is "fatigued" until healed.

Anyhow...he has about 6 doses from the medcines he was given by the assassin disguised as the doctor. He is about screwed unless the PCs can figure out what to do.

Well the Con damage definitely does not stack - but it depends on whether this is "damge" or not. If it is damage then the rules for damge would apply.

IIRC there is a save involved for Wound Damage, like the massive damage rule.

Doesn't UA talk about how to handle various damages (like ability damge and spells) when using the Vitality point/wound point system since it functions differently then the "normal" hit point system?


I would rule that the vitality or wound damage does not stack for mutiple doses since the onset time is so long - it appears to the body like a single "attack" and not multiple ones (which to me is what was meant by "instance"). But vitality and wound are different types of damage so they both apply.

Now it is reasonable to increase the save DC due to the amount of poison being "defended" by the body at once time.

 

[irdeggman]

Looking through the FAQ I found this:

If a PC wants to use multiple doses of an ingested poison, do their effects stack? Are multiple saves needed, or does this just increase the save DC or damage dealt?

Ingested poisons follow the general rules for poisons (DMG 296). They differ only in their method of application. Each dose of a digested poison requires its own saving throw and does its own damage.

So it looks like I was incorrect.

 

[Jhaelen]

The first symptoms takes effect 30 minutes later. He decides to lace 6 doses in the medcines he has him take.

Anyhow...he has about 6 doses from the medcines he was given by the assassin disguised as the doctor. He is about screwed unless the PCs can figure out what to do.

Well, let's see:

Has the victim taken unpoisoned medicine before?

If so, there's may be a chance to detect the poison because the medicine smells/tastes different.

Unless all of the six doses are taken within the 30 minutes before the first save has to be made the victim will know something is wrong after being required to make the first save.

Should the assassin try to use six doses of the poison for one dose of the medicine, I'd have the victim immediately realize something is wrong. The victim would never be affected by more than a single dose of the poison.

 

[akbearfoot]

As a player, I would seriously cry foul at multi-poisonings. Especially given the general double standard nature of poisons...ie poison almost exclusively being used by NPCs and monsters, and PCs having alignment issues if they use it regularly.

I think its fair to raise the save DC a bit if you get them to ingest a large amount of ingested poison, but there is no real listing of how much of a poison it takes to make a dose. Rather I think that a 'dose' is assumed to be a single exposure to a poison.

Otherwise you could have NPCs with 6 or 7 'doses' of injury poison on a single weapon, and when they hit someone, suddenly there are 14 saving throws involved.

And the next obvious question is 'can I mix 5 cure light wounds potions together to make a potion that heals 5d8+5 damage'? Or even better....a potion of bulls strength, cats grace, bears endurance, haste, and heroism.

 

[billd91]

As a player, I would seriously cry foul at multi-poisonings. Especially given the general double standard nature of poisons...ie poison almost exclusively being used by NPCs and monsters, and PCs having alignment issues if they use it regularly.

I think its fair to raise the save DC a bit if you get them to ingest a large amount of ingested poison, but there is no real listing of how much of a poison it takes to make a dose. Rather I think that a 'dose' is assumed to be a single exposure to a poison.

Otherwise you could have NPCs with 6 or 7 'doses' of injury poison on a single weapon, and when they hit someone, suddenly there are 14 saving throws involved.

And the next obvious question is 'can I mix 5 cure light wounds potions together to make a potion that heals 5d8+5 damage'? Or even better....a potion of bulls strength, cats grace, bears endurance, haste, and heroism.

I agree that this is asking for trouble. I would be more inclined to assume some form of diminishing returns with respect to ingested poisons. I'd raise the save DC 2 per extra dose and add a little damage. I'd only get to double damage after maybe 4 doses. I'd resolve it all with one set of saves.

With respect to injury poisons, I'd never let more than one dose apply at a time. I'd just say that the poison stays on the blade longer and for more hits over all (a thicker and more durable coat, so to speak).

 

[freyar]

Regarding the potions: Sure you can mix 5 CLW potions and heal 5x as much. But it's 5x as much liquid to drink and will take 5x as long.

And I agree with billd91 on the injury poison.