Questions on Running and Monster Teamwork

[Werewolf_26]

We had a long combat with an several war parties of goblins at our game last night. But the combat did bring up two points on which there was debate.

1: When running, you lose your dex bonus. Do you still threaten an area if you made a x3, x4, or x5 run? Couldn't find anything in relation to this after looking for several minutes. It was part of the goblins strategy to run away from us, but the barbarians in our party could run faster, and cut the goblin off at the pass. The question was : Did the running barbarian threaten the goblin, as the goblins next action was to run around the barbarian into their ambush zone.

2. Can to creatures act in unison to attack an opponent? The DM running the game at the time stated that the goblins had practiced swarm tactics, making certain that they approached their target at the same time (so that all flanking goblins get the flanking bonus to hit). The Player who had the most problem with this argued that the PCs never did this. The players never delayed their initiative so that they could do what the goblins are doing and it was unfair for the goblins to move in that manner. He felt that that even though the mass of goblins (2 or 3 at times, 9-14 at others) were on one initiative, they should each be moved one at a time, like the PCs do.

The DM and Player argued for about 20 minutes over the goblins, with the other player and I playing rock paper scissors to see who was going to "break up" the arguement. Since we tied, we both stepped in.

I told the player and the dm that I would post a question about this and gather other people's opinions before making a ruling on the strategy, as I'm the primary DM of the game (the DM running the goblin tribe is running a scenario he wrote for the party, and allowing me a chance to play for once).

Initially, I see no problem with a creature making a move action as normal, then using his standard action as a readied action "to attack when I get flanking." However, I'm looking for ya'lls opinions on the subject.

What do ya'll think?

Werewolf_26
"Red Valkaryie shot the potion."

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

The Player who had the most problem with this argued that the PCs never did this. The players never delayed their initiative so that they could do what the goblins are doing and it was unfair for the goblins to move in that manner. He felt that that even though the mass of goblins (2 or 3 at times, 9-14 at others) were on one initiative, they should each be moved one at a time, like the PCs do.

There are a number of interrelated issues:

(1) The PCs could delay actions in order to ensure coordinated moves. That is a useful item to have in your playbook. Maybe your group needs to reconsider this tactic?

(2) Rolling once for the initiative for a group is unfair to the PCs. Really the group of 12 monsters should have 12 initiatives rolled and pick the lowest. Implicitly they are delaying for the slowest member of their group.

(3) We prefer individual initiatives for monsters. Otherwise you can get groups of monsters entering in later rounds and suddenly surrounding a single PC much too easily. Doesn't feel right (even if it is consistent with the rules).

(4) The "swarm" tactics argument does make some sense. But I would limit that to 2-4 critters in a group. Do you have any idea how tough it is to coordinate larger groups closely? Any one individual hesitates two tenths of a second and the group starts tripping over each other.

(5) If you naively apply the delay rules, all that happens is you get simple sequences of "PCs go, monsters go". That is not exactly an improvement.

We like the individual initiatives for monsters, as much as is practical. This can be a real bear for the DM, BTW. We are investigating computer resources to help out.

 

[Dr_Rictus]

The Player who had the most problem with this argued that the PCs never did this. The players never delayed their initiative so that they could do what the goblins are doing and it was unfair for the goblins to move in that manner.

The only tricky thing about this is two characters moving in at the same time so as to both get flanking bonuses. You're quite correct; the readied action is the way to go. The downside is that if you fail to coordinate this correctly, the readying character loses his chance to attack.

If the DM at the time was employing some sort of simultaneous move for the goblins rather than adjudicating using rules (like readied actions) that were also available to the PC's, then yeah, I can see where that would come off as unfair, but fundamentally you can do this thing within the rules.

The argument that "the PC's never do this" is just plain nonsensical. Lord knows, I've played in groups that actually do this very thing. If the PC's never do this, it's their own durn fault. There's nothing "unfair" about the goblins employing better tactics than the PC's do. They should consider it a valuable lesson.

Mind you, those are some unusually well-drilled goblins, but so be it.