D&D 5E Quests from the Infinite Staircase TOC and Zargon.

Brandes Stoddard shared the table of contents from Quests from the Infinite Staircase, along with the stats for the elder evil Zargon the Returner, over on BlueSky. Quests from the Infinite Staircase comes out on July 16th, and is an adventure anthology for character levels 1-13.

 

[Demetrios1453]

But they will probably do fire and/or cold damage anyway as part of their regular attacks.

And if players notice something is regenerating fire is the very first thing they are going to try.

Well, as the original suposition was that it was going to be 3 non-optimized 11th level champion fighters, I suspect that they won't be doing fire or cold as part of their regular attacks.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Well, as the original suposition was that it was going to be 3 non-optimized 11th level champion fighters, I suspect that they won't be doing fire or cold as part of their regular attacks.

Even non-optimised fighters will have oil flasks, or they would be defeated by a CR5 troll.

 

[mamba]

One-vs-one my Level 20 Fighter beats Zargon in a round (with attacks to spare)...although that character has a few unofficial items...but even with the official items he drops Zargon like a bag of dirt inside 2 rounds.

what is the level range for the adventure he is in again?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

what is the level range for the adventure he is in again?

Fighting Zargon has never really been part of the adventure.

 

[mamba]

Fighting Zargon has never really been part of the adventure.

levels 1-3, yeah, I’d say he will do fine for that… definitely not meant to be attacked

 

[Upper_Krust]

what is the level range for the adventure he is in again?

Irrelevant for the point I was making which was he is weak for CR 17...though probably on par with other monsters of that CR, very few official monsters ever seem to pack a punch.

I already stated he might be a fun challenge for a low to mid party.

To me a CR 17 threat should be a Solo challenge for a party of 7-8th level or so and maybe he is that (just about) in which case I am doing the designers a disservice.

 

[dave2008]

Was not aware of that, who related that...Jim Ward?

Yes, he mentioned it in an article here on EnWorld: The Making and Breaking of Deities and Demigods

From that article:

"I can remember we had a debate over the hit points of the gods. I wanted the leader of the gods in each pantheon to have 1,000 hit points. Gary wanted them to have 400."

I dunno. 1000 hp seems quite a lot though considering deity HP is doubled on their home plane, but would have been interesting. Remembering of course Takhisis had 999 HP in Dragonlance, so maybe there was a precedent for it.

I could be wrong, but I don't think the doubling of HP was part of the god's powers in Deities and Demigods. Jim definitely doesn't mention it in that article. He gave Gary's justification for the lower HP as being because they don't die at 0 on the Prime but reform on their native plane.

 

[dave2008]

To me a CR 17 threat should be a Solo challenge for a party of 7-8th level or so and maybe he is that (just about) in which case I am doing the designers a disservice.

The issue (and success) of 5e is that a 7-8th level party can vary wildly in power. My group would have been TPK'd by Zargon at that level, other groups not so much.

 

[Not a Decepticon]

Unfortunately like so many high CR monsters, this things defenses are pathetic. Now its got some nice anti-magic abilities, but its AC and hp are so low, 3 11th level champion fighters (not really optimized, no special buffs like a +1 or +2 weapon kidn of thing, no advantage) can mow through this guy in just about 2 rounds flat with just average damages.

and again that's just a joe shmoe champion, you could easily bust out a half optimized paladin or barbarian or something and wreck this guy even harder.

And the damage just isn't that impressive, this guy doesn't have any big damage spikes or big conditions that would make a party afraid of him.

Elder Evil? More like Elderly Evil

What's your opinion on Goodman Zargon for comparison? Or the composite from this post

 

[dave2008]

What's your opinion on Goodman Zargon for comparison? Or the composite from this post

My Zargon didn't change much. I ended up having to increase his CR by 1, but if you're going to follow the guidelines and maintain the CR, there is only so much you can change.

So, you could buff Zargon's defenses, but then you also need to raise its CR. Which is fine of course, but I wanted to keep it closer to the official one as this was just a quick draft.

PS Stalker 0 has already given their thoughts here:
Comment 1 by Stalker
Comment 2 by Stalker
Comment 3 by Stalker
Comment 4 by Stalker - this is when he talks about the champions