quick ?: how to boost a single spell

[mvincent]

For the spell he mentioned each caster level adds 1 day to the duration

You mentioned this earlier, but he didn't state that duration was a concern, so I was trying to discern if it was, and if so: why (i.e. why couldn't he just cast it again each week or so)? And if not, was he thinking that CL did something else?

This may be true, but at the lowest possible caster level you can't animate anything with more than 10 HD with a single casting. So not quite the level you've mentioned (Animate max is 2xCL, control max is 4xCL)

Desecrate doubles this. From the rules:
"Regardless of the type of undead you create with this spell, you can’t create more HD of undead than twice your caster level with a single casting of animate dead. (The desecrate spell doubles this limit)"

 

[Aestolia]

Desecrate doubles this. From the rules:
"Regardless of the type of undead you create with this spell, you can’t create more HD of undead than twice your caster level with a single casting of animate dead. (The desecrate spell doubles this limit)"

Sorry that's true, I missed it in your original post ^.^

Issue is, finding the corpse, As a DM, to keep the party balanced, odds are you aren't going to easily find a body like that. As i mentioned before I'm currently playing a necro and had an ogre zombie (8 HD after animating) we were 5th level character, and he just unbalanced everything because of his sheer HD and Str.

It's all well and good to look at potential maximums, but what are you going to normally find?

 

[mvincent]

Issue is, finding the corpse

Yup (although, the OP seemed to be having the opposite sort of problem). Some possibilities:
1) Go to a giant, dragon, dinosaur, etc. graveyard
2) Pay someone to create the skeleton via Polymorph Any Object
3) Use Gather Information to find locations that high level adventurers have been through
4) Use Knowledge: History to find locations that high level adventurers have been through long, long ago.
5) Put a want-ad up in a location frequented by high-level adventurers.
etc.

I'm currently playing a necro and had an ogre zombie (8 HD after animating) we were 5th level character, and he just unbalanced everything because of his sheer HD and Str.

Yup. Even without desecrate, animate dead can easily become very unbalancing.

 

[Aestolia]

Oh of course, I'm not saying it's impossible, just that it's going to take at last some planning, and probably a good deal of time.

on a completely unrelated note... it's nice to find a forum where things like this can be talked about in a civil manner. *smiles*

 

[evilbob]

Thanks again for the helpful responses.

It seems like other than the "standard fare" of SF, GSF, and "better items," Heighten Spell (especially in conjunction with Arcane Thesis) and a few extra "trick" spells would be the most efficient way to boost it. Although as some have pointed out, controlling intelligent undead has got to be difficult, especially given their naturally high Will saves.

I believe there was a spell I read somewhere that caused the target to get a massive penalty to the next save they took; anyone remember that one? Does it work on undead? Anything else that can hurt a target's chances of making a save?


As for the side discussion of animate dead, it always looked like an important, but relatively weak spell to me on paper. For one, you can't cast it (without a scroll, I guess) until level 7. By that time, most CR-appropriate monsters can chew right through a small army of decent skeletons or zombies. However, I'm sure I'm missing something, and having never seen it in play, I am guessing I might be missing a lot. If other people have constructive thoughts about that spell, I'm happy to continue this side-bar.

 

[wolfpunk]

Would magical items like the Candle of Invocation or Incense of Meditation help at all?

 

[mvincent]

I believe there was a spell I read somewhere that caused the target to get a massive penalty to the next save they took

The aforementioned limited wish is the only one I can think of. Moment of Prescience can give you +25 to many things, but not DC.

most CR-appropriate monsters can chew right through a small army of decent skeletons

Get an even smaller army of indecent skeletons. A 12-14 HD skeleton is usually big juju at 7th level (especially if you obtain a hydra skeleton). When done in a desecrated area, you can have 20 HD skeletons (Titan, Balor, Storm Giant, Dinosaur, Dragon, etc.), which will almost certainly unbalance any campaign.

 

[mvincent]

Would magical items like the Candle of Invocation or Incense of Meditation help at all?

The OP is evidently an arcane spellcaster, so not without the Use Magic Device skill. Same with a prayer bead of Karma.

 

[Aestolia]

One thing that is often over looked when on paper is sheer numbers. Not only does it limit the opponents movement via AoO, but also the ease to get in the flanking.

In our games last encounter, I sent in 1 8hd zombie , 1 7HD Skeleton, 1 4hd skeletal wolf

I lost the wolf, but with it's speed really helped catch the enemy off guard. And it did take down one, and weaken a number others.

I do, however have 2 of the corpse crafter feats from Libris Mortis, which help with this:
Corpse Crafter - +4 Str and +2HP/HD
Nimble Bones - +4 ini, and +10' move

Given that skeletons get a +2 dex over the base creature, the skeletal wolf was sitting with an ini bonus of +14 (22 dex (improved base wolf), +4 Nimble bones, +4 Imp Ini (all skeletons get))

A handful of weak undead may not do much, but given that they all have a d12 for their HD, it can lead for a lot to chew through. An average 1HD creature raised as a zombie will have 15HP (2d12+3), since zombies double base creatures HD, and have toughness.

 

[evilbob]

I believe there was a spell I read somewhere that caused the target to get a massive penalty to the next save they took; anyone remember that one?

Nevermind - I was thinking of assay spell resistance, which works against SR, not saves.

On a related note, am I right in thinking that all wands are created with the minimum DC possible for the spell? Or is it up to the wand creator?