Quick Question: Attacks of Op in the Suprise Round

[Venator]

Can a character with the Combat Reflexes feat make AoO's during the suprise round if he/she is infact suprised and has yet to act?

Under Suprise Round in the Player's Handbook it says:

Unaware Combatants
Combatants who are unaware at the start of battle don’t get to act in the surprise round. Unaware combatants are flat-footed because they have not acted yet, so they lose any Dexterity bonus to AC.

It seems pretty clear to me that suprised characters can not act at all in the suprise round. They are flat footed because they have yet to act and no other reason. A player of mine thought otherwise and wanted to make AoO's to trip enemies with his spiked chain during the suprise round despite being suprised. Opinions?

 

[Geoff Watson]

Sure he can. Otherwise what would be the point of Combat Reflexes?

Geoff.

 

[Venator]

Sure he can. Otherwise what would be the point of Combat Reflexes?

Geoff.

err... to get more than one AoO per round? Anyways, more on topic, to make AoO's the first actual round of combat before acting, or any other time a character is rendered flat footed in combat?

If a character can't act in the suprise round, why would he be able to make attacks?

 

[Dimensional]

err... to get more than one AoO per round? Anyways, more on topic, to make AoO's the first actual round of combat before acting, or any other time a character is rendered flat footed in combat?

If a character can't act in the suprise round, why would he be able to make attacks?

because he has combat Reflexes?
it's what the feat does. it's the reason I almost always take Combat reflexes.


from the SRD

COMBAT REFLEXES [GENERAL]
Benefit: You may make a number of additional attacks of opportunity equal to your Dexterity bonus.

With this feat, you may also make attacks of opportunity while flat-footed.

Normal: A character without this feat can make only one attack of opportunity per round and can’t make attacks of opportunity while flat-footed.

Special: The Combat Reflexes feat does not allow a rogue to use her opportunist ability more than once per round.

 

[robberbaron]

The rules say 'flat-footed', not 'surprised'.

There is a wrinkle with Immediate Actions (damned psions) but, generally, if you are surprised, you don't get to act.

The surprise round is not the first round of combat. That starts with initiative being rolled.

If your initiative is lower than someone provoking an AoO you may, with Combat Reflexes, give them a slap.

 

[irdeggman]

The rules say 'flat-footed', not 'surprised'.

There is a wrinkle with Immediate Actions (damned psions) but, generally, if you are surprised, you don't get to act.

The surprise round is not the first round of combat. That starts with initiative being rolled.

If your initiative is lower than someone provoking an AoO you may, with Combat Reflexes, give them a slap.

Yup, more specifically:

surprise: A special situation that occurs at the beginning of a battle if some (but not all) combatants are unaware of their opponents’ presence. In this case, a surprise round happens before regular rounds begin. In initiative order (highest to lowest), those combatants who started the battle aware of their opponents each take a partial action during the surprise round. Creatures unaware of opponents are flat-footed through the entire surprise round and do not enter the initiative cycle until the first regular combat round.


flat-footed: Especially vulnerable to attacks at the beginning of a battle. Characters are flat-footed until their first turns in the initiative cycle. A flat-footed creature loses its Dexterity bonus to Armor Class (if any) and cannot make attacks of opportunity.

Surprise happens at the beginning of battle and a character is considered flat-footed at the beginning of battle until his first turn in the initiative order. A flat-footed creature can't make AoO.

Combat Reflexes allow making an AoO while flat-footed.

 

[robberbaron]

That says to me that Combat Reflexes would indeed allow AoO in the surprise round, as anyone unaware is flat-footed.

Personally, I'd house-rule that in a surprise round, anyone unaware of the attack cannot act in the surprise round, Combat Reflexes or not.
Just my view. Feel free to disagree.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Disagree

Reasons above...

Besides, to react to an AoO you need your weapon drawn/readied...so unless the group is actively paranoid they need thier first action to ready a weapon. Thus only paranoid/ready characters with Combat Reflexes will be able to react while surprises and flat-footed to the beastly ambushers that are silly enough to rush through a threatened area...

I don't let my players carry ready weapons as a default unless in a 'dungeon'. City Watchmen tend to take a poor view of adventurers weilding weapons in the city.

 

[UltimaGabe]

The rules say 'flat-footed', not 'surprised'.

There is a wrinkle with Immediate Actions (damned psions) but, generally, if you are surprised, you don't get to act.

The surprise round is not the first round of combat. That starts with initiative being rolled.

So... a character ISN'T flat-footed during the surprise round? Does that even begin to make sense?

 

[Hussar]

If a character wasn't flat footed in the surprise round, would a rogue get his sneak attack damage during surprise?

I'm thinking that you are flat footed during surprise.

Note that on the readied weapon bit, that's what armor spikes and/or unarmed strike is for. Heck, even a shield works in a pinch.