Quick Question

[RJSmalls]

Had this situation come up the other night:

Barbarian was magically Held after failing his Will save by 1 point on the die. Later that encounter, the barbarian's player said he wanted to Rage. As far as I know, Rage is a mental ability and can be done as a Free Action so long as the character has his mental faculties about him. When the barbarian raged, he gained a +2 improvement to his Will saves. The player argued that the change would, in effect, bump him out of the held condition.

I allowed it in the essence of just moving the game along, but I don't feel justified in my decision. I know that a barb can't rage after taking damage, for example, to get a boost in hit points, but can the above situation work? I also know that if a cleric casts Bless on a held character, that character doesn't get a new save or get to add the bonus to his earlier save.

Yet the barbarian's player made a logical argument that his character had effectively changed - he was now more strongly willed. Clearly the ability to rage is allowed, even when held, so the benefits conferred with it should be included.

Bottom line:

1) Should I have allowed him to break the Hold?

2) Should I have allowed him a re-roll on the Will save?

3) Should I have said, "Nice try, but you're still Held.

And - most importantly - do you know if the rules specifically address this issue? If so, where?

Thanks!
smalls

 

[Shin Okada]

PHB P.25 "Entering a rage takes no time itself,, but the barbarian can only do it during his action (see Initiative, page 120) not in response to somebody' else's action."

So, the barbarian cannot rage as a response to be held. He must wait until his next turn. And, even if his bonus to a save changes (by any means) after he has failed in a certain save, that means nothing. It does not grant him to re-roll the save or otherwise change the result. There is no such rule to allow this. So the correct answer is 3).

 

[Hypersmurf]

Tell him to try again come 3.5

According to popular rumour, Hold Person will allow a new save each round.

-Hyp.

 

[RJSmalls]

Shin, he raged his following turn (on the subsequent round). Still, I think #3 is correct as well, but I'm at a loss trying to find a rule that shows that to be the case. Maybe I'm approaching it incorrectly - maybe HE should have to find a rule that DOES allow it?

Smurf - I like the concept of continuous saves. Interesting to see how it works in practice.

 

[Shin Okada]

Maybe I'm approaching it incorrectly - maybe HE should have to find a rule that DOES allow it?

Yes. That is the way. As there is no rule which allows him to change the result of a save which he has already failed, he can't shrug off his held condition by raging. If he claims he can, he have to proof it.

 

[trentonjoe]

I agree that #3 is the rulebook answer but I think options 1 and 2 add more fun to the game.


Maybe you could make a new Special ability or feat and let the Barbarian take it.


Soemthing like this:

Paralyzed Rage
Prereq: Must have the rage special ability
Benefit: When the character fails a saving throw that slows or holds the character, she may invoke her rage ability on the next turn. TYhe character then gets a new saving throw to break the effect with the +2 bonus if applicable.

 

[Darklone]

He is held, thus cannot take any actions (DMG about page 80).

Second: Rage gives no bonus to will save. It gives a bonus to will saves against fear.

 

[trentonjoe]

Rage gives no bonus to will save. It gives a bonus to will saves against fear.

I don't think the above is correct. From the SRD:

Barbarian Rage: Barbarian temporarily gains +4 to Strength, +4 to Constitution, and a +2 morale bonus on Will saves, but suffers a –2 penalty to AC.

 

[Dr. Zoom]

I agree that it is number 3.

However, if you were to allow it, I would not have let him use his failed roll. He should have to make a new Will save with his new bonus.

 

[Darklone]

I don't think the above is correct. From the SRD:

Barbarian Rage: Barbarian temporarily gains +4 to Strength, +4 to Constitution, and a +2 morale bonus on Will saves, but suffers a –2 penalty to AC.

SRD is not complete, the fear part is from the PHB. And I asked this question several times here and noone could show me errata or FAQ till now that it's a +2 to all will saves.

There are soooo many effects that only help against fear effects... Bless... Bards song...