Quick strike

[fred_jaboobi]

Quick Strike

Prereqs: weapon finesse

The character can add his dexterity modifier to melee damage involving weapons that can be used with the finesse feat.

Normal: A character adds his strength modifier to melee damage



What do you think?

Should the character be able to add both dexterity and strength for the melee damage or only dexterity?

 

[BobProbst]

dex or str, not both

I think a stiffer prereq should be included here: BAB 5+, combat expertise, weapon finesse

 

[fred_jaboobi]

I don't know if other prereq's are needed. A finesse fighter is already 2 feats behind a normal strength based fighter. Making them wait 'til 5th level to do the same amount damage seems to be an additional penalty that isn't needed.

 

[JimAde]

Why is a dex-based fighter 2 feats behind a strength-based one? Weapon finesse and...?

I assume this is based on the premise that the high-dex fighter can hit more critical spots. As such, I think it should be subject to the same limitations as critical hits (i.e. won't affect undead, constructs, etc.).

 

[fred_jaboobi]

Why is a dex-based fighter 2 feats behind a strength-based one? Weapon finesse and...?

I assume this is based on the premise that the high-dex fighter can hit more critical spots. As such, I think it should be subject to the same limitations as critical hits (i.e. won't affect undead, constructs, etc.).

A normal fighter gets his str modifier for attack and damage. For a dexterity based fighter you would have to take finesse and use this feat as well. That is two feats.

I am using this feat for D&D, not Conan. I am sorry. I should have specified that.

 

[BobProbst]

I don't know if other prereq's are needed. A finesse fighter is already 2 feats behind a normal strength based fighter. Making them wait 'til 5th level to do the same amount damage seems to be an additional penalty that isn't needed.

Dex offers additional benefits that Str doesn't: Most notably: Armor Class. but also Reflex Saves and a wider range of feats. (edit: make that skills - tnx JA)

2 feats might seem a penalty on the face of it but a character need only focus on increasing one ability once these feats are taken to improve AC, to-hit and damage -- potent indeed!

 

[JimAde]

Dex offers additional benefits that Str doesn't: Most notably: Armor Class. but also Reflex Saves and a wider range of feats.

2 feats might seem a penalty on the face of it but a character need only focus on increasing one ability once these feats are taken to improve AC, to-hit and damage -- potent indeed!

Exactly. Plus Dex is used for ranged combat bonuses already, AND a bunch of skills are based on it.

fred_jaboobi: I see now what you meant by two feats. I was being dense. But what do you think of limiting it to targets that are not immune to critical hits?

 

[BobProbst]

Right, ranged also -- a first level fighter (of any race) could spend his 2 feats for Weapon Finesse and Quick Strike. Even with a point buy system, going after an 18 Dex would become well worth it, gaining:

+4AC
+4 to hit (ranged and melee)
+4 Damage
+4 to a bunch of very useful skills
+4 Reflex Save

Add to that the potential for a +2 Racial Bonus, +6 Enhancement Bonus, +5 Inherent Bonus plus regular level increases . . .

a 30 Dex gives you +10 to all of these things!

I'm convincing myself that the feat should be even more difficult to take, if it should be available at all -- I agree that the damage should have the same limitations that a sneak attack has.

 

[fred_jaboobi]

Right, ranged also -- a first level fighter (of any race) could spend his 2 feats for Weapon Finesse and Quick Strike. Even with a point buy system, going after an 18 Dex would become well worth it, gaining:

+4AC
+4 to hit (ranged and melee)
+4 Damage
+4 to a bunch of very useful skills
+4 Reflex Save

Add to that the potential for a +2 Racial Bonus, +6 Enhancement Bonus, +5 Inherent Bonus plus regular level increases . . .

a 30 Dex gives you +10 to all of these things!

Yes, that is why you would have to take two feats to get it. You already get 3 of the 5 things without taking feats. You take one feat to change your attack modifier and you take another to change your damage modifier. If you are a fighter who focused on speed I don't know why it would take 'til some later level to wreak as much havoc as a strength based figter at 1st level. With that said, I could see adding weapon focus as a prereq to narrow the focus to just one type of weapon.


Remember, quick strike is for melee damage only not ranged damage. You would have to take another feat to add your dexterity to your ranged damage. I can't find that issue of Dragon at the moment to see what the prereq's for that feat are.

I could see where you limit the extra damage to creatures that are not immune to critical hits.

 

[JimAde]

Yes, that is why you would have to take two feats to get it. You already get 3 of the 5 things without taking feats. You take one feat to change your attack modifier and you take another to change your damage modifier. If you are a fighter who focused on speed I don't know why it would take 'til some later level to wreak as much havoc as a strength based figter at 1st level. With that said, I could see adding weapon focus as a prereq to narrow the focus to just one type of weapon.

I think that would make a big difference. If it's just one type of weapon, it's something the character will have 90% of the time, but can lose in some circumstances (in addition to sometimes fighting enemies it doesn't work on). You're still going to end up with a lot of Dex-based fighters, though. Maybe that's cool. I haven't played Conan. Doesn't it include a Defense Bonus to encourage less tank-like armor? Correct me if I'm wrong.