I'm just curious to know people's opinions. One of the rogues in my group has the Quicker then the Eye feat, and hordes potions of glibness. I think tht it is grossly unblancing to allow the two to work together. A +30 to bluff checks GUARANTEES that the feat will always work, no matter what, especially since his bluff is maxed out. The potion's description says that it "allows the imbiber to speak fluently and even to tell lies smoothly, believably, and undetectably for 1 hour (add +30 to bluff checks)." Does this mean that its bonus should only apply when used to lie, or is it just flavor text, and be allowed to be used with all aspects of the bluff skill?
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Quicker than the Eye and Potions of Glibness
- Thread starter LordAO
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Elder-Basilisk
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I imagine it would be unbalancing if the rogue successfully used quicker than the eye every round--especially if he had expert tactician or something like that as well.
You have a few options though:
1. It doesn't work with the kind of bluff Quicker than the Eye uses. As per the text, it only works when you lie.
2. You can use the potion to bluff in combat but your opponent gets bonusses to sense motive against verbal bluffs--after all, "what's that behind you?" is the oldest trick in the book. Maybe +10 sense motive the first time and +20 the second. +30 or even +40 the third. Or maybe the opponent just stops listening to the PC altogether.
3. Let the rogue use them together and limit the availability of potions of glibness. At one hour a pop, the potions won't last long if he uses them regularly--particularly if you orchestrate a series of moderately challenging encounters spread throughout several days (and all of them a few hours apart). Potions of glibness aren't the kind of thing that should be generally (legally) available anyway.
4. Let the rogue use them together but pit him against an equal level orc barbarian with a 22 strength (before raging) and a potion of bull's strength. When the orc cleans the rogue off of his axe, disallow the Quicker than the Eye feat for future characters.
You have a few options though:
1. It doesn't work with the kind of bluff Quicker than the Eye uses. As per the text, it only works when you lie.
2. You can use the potion to bluff in combat but your opponent gets bonusses to sense motive against verbal bluffs--after all, "what's that behind you?" is the oldest trick in the book. Maybe +10 sense motive the first time and +20 the second. +30 or even +40 the third. Or maybe the opponent just stops listening to the PC altogether.
3. Let the rogue use them together and limit the availability of potions of glibness. At one hour a pop, the potions won't last long if he uses them regularly--particularly if you orchestrate a series of moderately challenging encounters spread throughout several days (and all of them a few hours apart). Potions of glibness aren't the kind of thing that should be generally (legally) available anyway.
4. Let the rogue use them together but pit him against an equal level orc barbarian with a 22 strength (before raging) and a potion of bull's strength. When the orc cleans the rogue off of his axe, disallow the Quicker than the Eye feat for future characters.
Thanks for the ideas, to answer your questions he does indeed have Expert Tactition as well. And, yes, he uses the potions every battle. And, yes, he uses Quicker than the Eye and Expert Tactition every round (sigh). So he runs around the entire battlefield, sneak attacking everything multiple times, and moves on to the next unsuspecting enemy. And as far as the availability, there is nothing I can do since he has some Wizard levels and makes them himself. As far as the barbarian idea, I'm afraid that the Barbarian would probably lose. I just don't know what to do. Anyone who thinks time stop is bad should see this character!
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babaien dy? huh? me berk nefah no die. me berk babaien. me keel *starts counting fingers, going back to the first one once he reaches his third for a lil bit* me keel mennee teefs beefo.
Anyways, I love the barbarian class and can't wait for my barbarian to reach epic levels. But hey, do you actually think a raging barbarian is gonna care what an enemy says to them? If at all it would only make them madder. Add that with uncanny dodge. Thief killing machine. Remember uncanny dodge makes it so you never lose your dex mod to ac, hence you can never be caught offguard, hence no sneak attacks. And plus, as long as that thief isn't 5 levels or more higher then the barbarian, no sneak attack either from flanking. Ain't being a barbarian great? =o)
Anyways, I love the barbarian class and can't wait for my barbarian to reach epic levels. But hey, do you actually think a raging barbarian is gonna care what an enemy says to them? If at all it would only make them madder. Add that with uncanny dodge. Thief killing machine. Remember uncanny dodge makes it so you never lose your dex mod to ac, hence you can never be caught offguard, hence no sneak attacks. And plus, as long as that thief isn't 5 levels or more higher then the barbarian, no sneak attack either from flanking. Ain't being a barbarian great? =o)
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I would rule that the potion of glibness doesn't help feinting in combat, which is about body language rather than speech language (in my view).
Frankly, I think the whole potion of glibness thing is, dare I say it, broken anyway! Considering the scope of the lies that you can easily get away with after you've quaffed it...
Frankly, I think the whole potion of glibness thing is, dare I say it, broken anyway! Considering the scope of the lies that you can easily get away with after you've quaffed it...
You have to be an 8th level caster to make a potion of glibness. so my guess is that you are playing at above 10th level characters. rogue/wizards are a powerful combo. I had an elven archer once who.... Well, never mind.
Anyway, I think you just have to come up with good ways to counter it. dispel magic, constructs, undead, plants, miss-chances, uncanny dodge, outragous Spot checks, etc.
But you should also remember that he should be allowed to use his abilites that his character is based around. however, it is quite lame that he does it every time, all the time. I wouldn't like that either.
You might also consider doing it back to him a few times and see what he and the other players do to counter it. After all, if it such a great tactic, I'm sure he isn't the only one who's thought of it.
Anyway, I think you just have to come up with good ways to counter it. dispel magic, constructs, undead, plants, miss-chances, uncanny dodge, outragous Spot checks, etc.
But you should also remember that he should be allowed to use his abilites that his character is based around. however, it is quite lame that he does it every time, all the time. I wouldn't like that either.
You might also consider doing it back to him a few times and see what he and the other players do to counter it. After all, if it such a great tactic, I'm sure he isn't the only one who's thought of it.
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Monte Cook himself said that this game was balanced with the assumption that rogues could sneak attack ALL THE TIME. Check his message boards if you want...it's there somewhere in one of the "sneak attack is broken" threads. I'm just pointing this out because I know many folks respect his opinion.
So he gets one sneak attack per round. What's the problem? Although ET gives him another attack, it won't be a sneak attack (dex is only denied for the "next attack", not for an entire round...just long enough to "trigger" ET), and it also has to be at the beginning or end of the round. So, no spring attacking.
I would be more concerned with the other uses of Bluff. His damage output should still be less than that of a tanked up fighter, and that's WHEN he can get off sneak attacks. There are tons of ways to grant immunity to sneak attack. Plus, this tactic keeps him in melee, and since he has so many wizard levels, how many hits can he take before dying?
Also, remember that QttE does not grant an extra partial action...it just means that the foe doesn't notice what you do during the partial action you take immediately after the move-equivalent feint. There are also much cooler things you can do with QttE, like disarming/sundering/picking up foe's dropped weapon/etc. w/o provoking an AoO...or picking pockets even easier than before.
If instead he took some fighter levels and grabbed TWF/ITWF/Ambidex, he could be making full attacks and doing much more sneak attack damage.
So he gets one sneak attack per round. What's the problem? Although ET gives him another attack, it won't be a sneak attack (dex is only denied for the "next attack", not for an entire round...just long enough to "trigger" ET), and it also has to be at the beginning or end of the round. So, no spring attacking.
I would be more concerned with the other uses of Bluff. His damage output should still be less than that of a tanked up fighter, and that's WHEN he can get off sneak attacks. There are tons of ways to grant immunity to sneak attack. Plus, this tactic keeps him in melee, and since he has so many wizard levels, how many hits can he take before dying?
Also, remember that QttE does not grant an extra partial action...it just means that the foe doesn't notice what you do during the partial action you take immediately after the move-equivalent feint. There are also much cooler things you can do with QttE, like disarming/sundering/picking up foe's dropped weapon/etc. w/o provoking an AoO...or picking pockets even easier than before.
If instead he took some fighter levels and grabbed TWF/ITWF/Ambidex, he could be making full attacks and doing much more sneak attack damage.
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