R&C: Net gain abilities...

[breschau]

It's been mentioned on the forum (and on the info page) that according to Races & Classes ability scores are retooled to only give out bonuses instead of penalties. I have the book but can't seem to find the reference. Anyone with the book care to give me the page I'm looking for.

Thanks.

 

[mach1.9pants]

Sorry I can't reply my copy is winging its way to NZ from amazon.com! However I hope it is true-I like the idea of just a positive or 2 positive and 1 negative, a lot more flexibilty for new races
I think your excerpt came from about the dwarves not getting a CHA penalty, have a look there. Just from what I remember from the threads

 

[Atlatl Jones]

It was either in the introduction to the races section, or at the end, in the miscellaneous races section. It was in the context of a discussion of ECL.

 

[Voss]

Um? Is this races don't inflict racial ability penalties (like dwarves not having a -2 Charisma pen)

or

Ability score modifiers seriously range from +0 to +50 (or whatever). And either a
Str of 1 gives a +0, 3 gives +1, etc
or
1-10 is +0, and the rest is like it is in 3e? (12-13 +1, 14-15 +2, etc)?

since that would be rather odd.

It also has some ... odd implications for halflings, either way.

From the wording on the info page, its the first one. Would you mind rewording your post so thats clear?

 

[breschau]

Character races now offer a "net positive" on ability score modifiers...

That's great. It doesn't quite match with...

From Wizards Presents: Races & Classes: Ability score adjustments have a net positive benefit (i.e. not of the type -2 / +2).

The source of that bit is what I'm looking for, but thanks for eliminated a suspect.

 

[the Jester]

I have been skipping around in the book (just got it tonight!), so I can't find it, but I recall reading that the races now gave net positive modifiers instead of net zero modifiers on stats. I took that to mean, like, two +2s and one -2 or something.

But as I said, a quick look didn't turn the bit up. Shrug.

 

[breschau]

From the wording on the info page, its the first one. Would you mind rewording your post so thats clear?

From the wording on the Info pages it's your second. This bit is listed in the classes section, not races. Then there's this... which tells us the numbers are higher (+7 for 19 and +5 for 14 and 15), again, pointing to the second conclusion. Something like {(Abil / 2) - 2 } instead of the 3E version.

But, I can't see anything in R&C that points to this conclusion.

 

[Voss]

All I found on the info page was this one, in the Classes area.

From Wizards Presents: Races & Classes: Ability score adjustments have a net positive benefit (i.e. not of the type -2 / +2).

Pretty sure thats referring to racial adjustments. Not the stats themselves.

As for link... Ah, thats the bad model from the spined devil card. Almost 100% sure thats wrong. Those numbers are far more likely the Saga-style formula for skills linked to the appropriate ability (rather than writing all the skills out on the card)
1/2 level + current ability modifer. The math fits just as well, and also accounts for the damage bonus on its melee attack being what a 19 Str would currently give you (+4)

 

[breschau]

All I found on the info page was this one, in the Classes area.

Pretty sure thats referring to racial adjustments. Not the stats themselves.

As for link... Ah, thats the bad model from the spined devil card. Almost 100% sure thats wrong. Those numbers are far more likely the Saga-style formula for skills linked to the appropriate ability (rather than writing all the skills out on the card)
1/2 level + current ability modifer. The math fits just as well, and also accounts for the damage bonus on its melee attack being what a 19 Str would currently give you (+4)

That doesn't exactly track.

2 claws +9...
+3 from level (assuming +1/2 per level).
+4 (assuming 3e ability modifiers 19 +4).
= +7 not +9.

Where's the other +2 coming from? Could be a +2 due to 1st level skirmisher (akin to the new 1st level boosts by class).

I see what you're saying about the damage. That works. But listing the skill bonuses in the abilities boxes? That's just damned confusing and sloppy. "Skills: Spot +10, All +3" would be much smoother and less confusing.

Damn, that's gonna piss me off if it's true.

 

[Deverash]

That doesn't exactly track.

2 claws +9...
+3 from level (assuming +1/2 per level).
+4 (assuming 3e ability modifiers 19 +4).
= +7 not +9.

Where's the other +2 coming from? Could be a +2 due to 1st level skirmisher (akin to the new 1st level boosts by class).

I see what you're saying about the damage. That works. But listing the skill bonuses in the abilities boxes? That's just damned confusing and sloppy. "Skills: Spot +10, All +3" would be much smoother and less confusing.

Damn, that's gonna piss me off if it's true.

If it is for the remainder of the untrained skills, it would be very nice to have them precalculated by stat like that. If I'm running an encounter, it seems unduly complicated to have to look in the skill box for it's base +, then add the appropriate stat in.

And, if there aren't things that are resisted by contested statistic rolls, but rather by contested attack rolls or contested skill rolls, then having the raw stats listed out would not be necessary at all.