R&C: Net gain abilities...

[Merlin the Tuna]

I think it's fine if all the races give you ability bonuses (like with the sample elf PHB writeup), but I hope they didn't totally rewrite all the ability bonus/penalty levels to remove the very concept of penalties. In other words, I hope that a 3 STR (for instance) still gives you penalties. I don't know how they're handling the ability scores, exactly what point-buy system they're using, but I am seriously crossing-my-fingers hoping-and-praying that you can still play a clumsy dude with DEX 8 or an ugly, repulsive creep with CHA 4 or a stupid person with INT 5 or whatever.

I don't see any benefit of having penalties -- we just frame shift so that INT 5 is a +2 modifier instead of a -3. It doesn't make the guy any less of a knuckle-dragging troglodyte, it just changes a game mechanic. Ability score penalties can interact bizarrely with the game system -- as an example, wielding a weapon with both hands doesn't actually do anything unless your strength is 14 or higher.

 

[Plane Sailing]

It's been mentioned on the forum (and on the info page) that according to Races & Classes ability scores are retooled to only give out bonuses instead of penalties. I have the book but can't seem to find the reference. Anyone with the book care to give me the page I'm looking for.

Thanks.

If you check out the Elf preview on the WotC site, you see they have +2 wisdom and +2 Dexterity.

I think we are going to see the same kind of thing across the board for all classes. One of the things it says in R&C (IIRC) is that they wanted to raise the baseline for ALL races, to make it easier to introduce interesting new races without having to use the LA mechanic (which didn't work).

Cheers

 

[pawsplay]

I think we are going to see the same kind of thing across the board for all classes. One of the things it says in R&C (IIRC) is that they wanted to raise the baseline for ALL races, to make it easier to introduce interesting new races without having to use the LA mechanic (which didn't work).

It may have some psychological benefit, but really every class still has weak scores: all the ones they don't have bonuses in! So if I make a hulking race and give them +4 Str, that's basically the same thing as saying, "Constitution lower than a dwarf's." LA or no LA, there is a practical cap on a race's power without using racial levels, LA, weird feat chains etc.

 

[DreamChaser]

I don't see any benefit of having penalties -- we just frame shift so that INT 5 is a +2 modifier instead of a -3. It doesn't make the guy any less of a knuckle-dragging troglodyte, it just changes a game mechanic. Ability score penalties can interact bizarrely with the game system -- as an example, wielding a weapon with both hands doesn't actually do anything unless your strength is 14 or higher.

Two advantages:

0 is the modifier for an average score, with poor scores having a negative number and high scores having a positive number. (poor = negative, high = positive). This is intuitive. +3 as an "average" is easy enough to work around but it isn't by any definition intuitive.

DCs for checks. Currently, a simple task is DC 5, an easy task DC 10, a moderately difficult task DC 15. If bonuses shifted up, either tasks would become easier or the defaults would shift to 8, 13, 18, etc. Having easy to remember multiples of 5 as benchmarks is easier, and again more intuitive, than 8, 13, 18, etc.

DC

 

[breschau]

I think that is where I was confused. On the info page (and with the stat card for the Spined Devil) it looks like ability modifiers are now only positive numbers. That appears to be false. It's the racial ability modifiers that are only bonuses now, instead of bonuses and penalties.

So ability modifiers are the same as they were is 3.x. 10-11 +0, etc.

Damn I hope they change that stat card.