R&C: Net gain abilities...

[Voss]

skills, not attack bonus. I'm not sure exactly what bonuses are going in there. Same with AC, actually. Something isn't accounted for.

It takes some getting used to, but I don't see it as that sloppy. Basically the skills part of the card only notes special bonuses or training bonuses. Everything else you just go off the relevant total in the ability box. So, spot is +10 since you add the total wisdom bonus (5), with the perception bonus from senses (5). For everything else, you've got the numbers without a lot of extra text cluttering up the stat block.

Printing the actual ability modifier also isn't that useful (for a handy stat block). working it into all the appropriate formulas makes more sense.

 

[kunadam]

Page 16 2nd column Line 5: "Character races now offer a "net positive" on ability score modifiers, so there's more room for new character races to stand."

Page 32 2nd column in the top states that "they [dwarves] have no Charisma penalty"

 

[breschau]

Printing the actual ability modifier also isn't that useful (for a handy stat block). working it into all the appropriate formulas makes more sense.

Yes, it is. Print the ability modifier because that's the most useful bit of abilities, not the score. You only use the score for feat prerequisites and lifting/encum.

The ability modifier is what is used for every roll based on that ability. If they need to list the pre-cal'ed skills, at least list them in a separate row, just below the ability it's for.

Very first thing I thought when looking at that card was... "oh god, they changed the ability modifiers. Look! Str 19 gives a +7 bonus now! Holy crap."

We've had the same numbers in the same boxes for the last seven years, now they're keeping the boxes and half of what's in them is changed. But, the format's the same (a bonus listed next to a number). That's lame and confusing.

 

[pawsplay]

So... what do humans get?

 

[Kaffis]

So... what do humans get?

+1 to 3 stats, player's choice?

 

[Voss]

Yes, it is. Print the ability modifier because that's the most useful bit of abilities, not the score. You only use the score for feat prerequisites and lifting/encum.

The ability modifier is what is used for every roll based on that ability. If they need to list the pre-cal'ed skills, at least list them in a separate row, just below the ability it's for.

Except the ability modifier *isn't* used for any roll that it isn't already worked out on the card, or at least thats the premise.

The only rolls left are the skill rolls, and its a waste of space to write out every single skill on the card.

What do you anticipate needing the ability modifier for?

 

[breschau]

Except the ability modifier *isn't* used for any roll that it isn't already worked out on the card, or at least thats the premise.

The only rolls left are the skill rolls, and its a waste of space to write out every single skill on the card.

What do you anticipate needing the ability modifier for?

When you need to make ability checks. When a skill doesn't cover something. I'm not advocating listing every skill maybe something like...


..............STR...DEX...CON...INT...WIS...CHA
.....MOD...+x....+x.....+x....+x....+x.....+x
....SKILL...+x....+x.....+x....+x....+x.....+x

Because there are times when you will need just the modifier, like when you lose it for a given roll. And there are times when you'll need things already figured, like skill checks based on an ability and level.

 

[pawsplay]

Something that's bothering me. If every race has a net gain, does that imply a nonadventuring elf has Str 10, Dex 12, Con 10, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 10? If so... what does a non adventuring human have? I'm assuming that non adventuring humans get the same bonuses other humans get, whatever those are.

 

[Reaper Steve]

Maybe humans will have stat bonuses now?
My guess: +2 to one stat of your choice

 

[ptolemy18]

I think it's fine if all the races give you ability bonuses (like with the sample elf PHB writeup), but I hope they didn't totally rewrite all the ability bonus/penalty levels to remove the very concept of penalties. In other words, I hope that a 3 STR (for instance) still gives you penalties. I don't know how they're handling the ability scores, exactly what point-buy system they're using, but I am seriously crossing-my-fingers hoping-and-praying that you can still play a clumsy dude with DEX 8 or an ugly, repulsive creep with CHA 4 or a stupid person with INT 5 or whatever. I like the occasional unbalanced character, both for role-playing opportunities and for good ol' min-maxing. Nothing wrong with making a character with an Achilles' Heel, if you want.

There's lots of good things in Iron Heroes, but I didn't like how they handled the ability scores in which everyone starts out with a 10 in everything and the lowest starting stat is a single 8 if you get the Trait that gives you a -2 for +2 in some other ability. :/ It's just not as interesting. If they do a point-buy system, I'd prefer it if the base numbers are lower (at least like the base 8 in the 3.5 DMG point-buy rules) so you have more customization possibilities.