D&D General RA Salvatore Wants To Correct Drizzt’s Racist Tropes

In an interview with Polygon, the author talks about how the drow are currently being redefined in D&D, and how he wants to be part of that process.

”But on the other hand, if the drow are being portrayed as evil, that’s a trope that has to go away, be buried under the deepest pit, and never brought out again. I was unaware of that. I admit it. I was oblivious.

Drow are now split into (at least) three types — the familiar Udadrow of Menzoberranzan, the arctic-themed Aevendrow, and the jungle-themed Lorendrow. Salvatore's new novel, Starlight Enclave, helps to expand the drows' role in the narrative.

D&D’s Drizzt books were built on racist tropes. R.A. Salvatore wants to change that

‘If the drow are being portrayed as evil, that’s a trope that has to go away’

www.polygon.com

In 2020 WotC made a public statement about how they would be treating drow and orcs going forward -- "Throughout the 50-year history of D&D, some of the peoples in the game—orcs and drow being two of the prime examples—have been characterized as monstrous and evil, using descriptions that are painfully reminiscent of how real-world ethnic groups have been and continue to be denigrated. That’s just not right, and it’s not something we believe in. "

Commitment to Diversity | Dungeons & Dragons

D&D continues to be made as diverse as possible with the reminder that only a diverse group of adventurers can overcome obstacles.

dnd.wizards.com

 

[Libertad]

Sorry, sometimes I can be clumpsy to explain my ideas, even talking my first language. I will try it again.

If you want to know who really is fighting against the injustice or he is other wolf with sheep's clothing then you have to watch his reactions when somebody dares to show disagremeent.

And I have seen lots of toxic people abusing the fallacy of false middle point.

Do you remember the X-Men comics? The mutants suffer fear and intolerance, but Magneto chose the wrong path and like this the thigs weren't help to go better. The sentinel robots were created to defend the helpless masses against those who a stronger power, but they were monsters, and a menace for innocent people.

I am asking to have enough good sense to not replace a poison a other. We have to promote the mercy and forgiveness. We don't need only mutual respect, but for a better coexistence we also need mutual trust, and here everybody has to cooperate. And we need some pieces of diplomacy. Saying alway "this is your fault" is not going to help to fix this.

The rules about politically correct in 2021 are different, and they can change again in the future.

* Even with the best of the intentions fictional races could become pejorative nicknames of real people. I remember when some child in the class was "x character from certain cartoon".

Not to derail too hard into X-Men talk, but many comics of that series show that the Sentinel Program wasn't done with good intentions. Various timelines have them arise regardless of how violent/pacifist the mutants are, and in just about every fictional universe they go to drastic lengths in enforcing "law and order." Including killing civilians and widespread property damage.

And then there are things like Days of Future Past where the Sentinels end up enslaving all humans "for their own good."

The "Sentinels are defenders of normal humanity" is pretty much inaccurate in the vast majority of X-Men comics.

 

[Steampunkette]

Huh? That's not a Drow....that's a real person. The Drow aren't real.

Pointing out that there are human beings with "Jet Black Skin" so hiding behind the 'inhumanity' of Drow meaning they can't have a real life impact on racism is kind of a laughable position for lots of people to take.

 

[Reynard]

... That is certainly a take on racism.

The alternative is you could recognize that subconscious biases also exist and pretending that the only kind of bigotry that "Counts" is when it's standing on your lawn next to a burning cross is self-limiting at -best-.

I'm sure the people who made Ace Ventura Pet Detective didn't think they were being Transphobic Bigots when they made an entire police precinct and football team and -dolphin- wretch and gag and feel dirtied when they learned that Lieutenant Einhorn (hur hur, one horn!) was transgender.

But it doesn't mean it wasn't transphobic AF.


Seriously. Watch this scene and tell me it isn't -ridiculously- transphobic from the start when Ace calls the Lieutenant's gender into question. Remember, it only "Counts" as transphobic if they were intentionally and willfully trying to be hateful rather than just, y'know, using trans women as a punchline. Show your work on separating out authorial intent from audience presumption!

Intent is great and all. But it's not required to do harm. Accidentally shooting someone might be less grievous than shooting someone intentionally, but they still got SHOT.

A lot of the most popular movies of the 90s do not age well, especially in relation to LGBTQ+ issues. Gay men were either villains or jokes, lesbians were either man hating butches or dreamy sluts, trans characters were as often as not serial killers, and bisexual men were completely nonexistent. It took a literal epidemic to get the wider culture to see LGBTQ+ people as, well, people.
(sorry, tangent)

 

[Dire Bare]

Please watch this:


They are not human. But they are completely made up by humans - they are the direct result of human choices.

Thanks for the video link, it was a good watch . . . and the channel looks interesting too!

 

[Reynard]

Yeah, sure ... I mean we need to give this guy a break, he was only writing Drizzt novels and one of the major forces behind defining drow and drow culture for a couple of decades. Hardly any time to notice

At leas he wasn't using his popularity to jealously sideline and bury various non-evil drow cultures during those years because they were from other authors and not him. ups

I really wish people would read either the interview or even just the whole thread.

For those in the back: He isn't saying he did not know that drow were being portrayed as evil. he is saying he was not aware that parallels were being drawn to real world people of African descent and that it was causing harm.

 

[Umbran]

We have to promote the mercy and forgiveness.

Forgiveness is for those who admit their errors, and try to make amends. If Mr. Salvatore makes good on his claim that he's going to do better, he may be given some measure of forgiveness for his past errors, for example.

You do not get forgiveness for doing harm when you are still doing the harm.

We don't need only mutual respect, but for a better coexistence we also need mutual trust

After doing harm, you must earn trust.

 

[pumasleeve]

... That is certainly a take on racism.

The alternative is you could recognize that subconscious biases also exist and pretending that the only kind of bigotry that "Counts" is when it's standing on your lawn next to a burning cross is self-limiting at -best-.

I'm sure the people who made Ace Ventura Pet Detective didn't think they were being Transphobic Bigots when they made an entire police precinct and football team and -dolphin- wretch and gag and feel dirtied when they learned that Lieutenant Einhorn (hur hur, one horn!) was transgender.

But it doesn't mean it wasn't transphobic AF.


Seriously. Watch this scene and tell me it isn't -ridiculously- transphobic from the start when Ace calls the Lieutenant's gender into question. Remember, it only "Counts" as transphobic if they were intentionally and willfully trying to be hateful rather than just, y'know, using trans women as a punchline. Show your work on separating out authorial intent from audience presumption!

Intent is great and all. But it's not required to do harm. Accidentally shooting someone might be less grievous than shooting someone intentionally, but they still got SHOT.

To expand on your last analogy, when the shooter stands trial for this crime the prosecution will certainly try to establish intent if it is evident to be there, and the sentencing will be affected by the outcome. The intentional and the accidental shooter both had the same outcome yet the degree of penalty is greatly affected by the intent of the shooter (if established).

I watched the clip, im wondering if you feel that the humor is ignorant of its impact to transgender people, or actually maliciously intended to harm? Would you consider both of these offenses to be equal in measure? Is there a difference in how you would respond to the offender in each case?

 

[Mirtek]

I really wish people would read either the interview or even just the whole thread.

I read it and it's still bu#####t

If Salvatore had this epiphany he could have allowed one of the many non-evil drow cultures that he used his popularity as the prime drow author to get them sidelined and forgotten because they were not created by him but other authors.

I guess his ego doesn't permit him with having the other dark seldarine and existing non-evil and even good drow enclaves have their place in the sun, but forced him to come up with Aevendrow and the Lorendrow so that it's still all his creation

 

[Sacrosanct]

A lot of the most popular movies of the 90s do not age well, especially in relation to LGBTQ+ issues. Gay men were either villains or jokes, lesbians were either man hating butches or dreamy sluts, trans characters were as often as not serial killers, and bisexual men were completely nonexistent. It took a literal epidemic to get the wider culture to see LGBTQ+ people as, well, people.
(sorry, tangent)

I remember when the Crying Game came out. And shortly after, Ace Venture 2 came out which totally took that movie and turned it into a tasteless joke.

Knowing Jim Carey now (and what he believes), I wonder if he ever goes back and regrets how they did that movie.

I really wish people would read either the interview or even just the whole thread.

For those in the back: He isn't saying he did not know that drow were being portrayed as evil. he is saying he was not aware that parallels were being drawn to real world people of African descent and that it was causing harm.

Indeed. The guy admitted he was unware back then (which is fair because so many were), and he's trying to do better now that he does know. He's actually been very supportive of progressive rights for a long time, so he's hardly some money grubbing bigot.

But I admit my bias. I hope people are allowed a chance to be repentant and be better. In the 80s, 90s, and even into the 2000s I held some beliefs that were not fair or true. I learned better since then, and have tried to be better. I hope someone doesn't look at what I said in 1990 and think I still think that way. So maybe I'm not the best to defend Salvatore because I see parallels with myself there and I am impacted by bias.

 

[Umbran]

The rules about politically correct in 2021 are different, and they can change again in the future.

Mod note:
I have to call this out separately. Using the term "politically correct" (or other, similar terms) to dismiss an argument is against our policies. Don't do it.