Race Character Optimisation: Just Choose Dwarf

[Aulirophile]

1. Its some more hp over a complete day.

2. HP loss ove NADs often come with status effects (a daze and inor action second wind doesn´t help anymore)

3. Some hp don´t make or break a character...

1.) That is hugely relevant, especially in LFR and modules.

2.) If you can't shrug off status effects as a defender, you built your character wrong. Course if you're a human Fighter you also built it wrong, so.

3.) Tell that to Wardens.

 

[scylis]

2.) If you can't shrug off status effects as a defender, you built your character wrong. Course if you're a human Fighter you also built it wrong, so.

Oh yeah? How so?

 

[Nyronus]

I think the real dark horse of the red box is the +2 Dex +2 Con halfling. Tough little bastards.

It makes sense. Kind of. They're fearless river boating adventure folk. All of that rowing and ticking off minotaurs for giggles makes them hale. This change, coincidentally, also makes them a tier 1 assassin race for either build.

All you hear is the near silent pitter-patter of hairless bare feet before the four foot blade of shadow rips out of the front of your neck.

As for dwarves getting +Str... for all of the hooting and hollering about them being great for melee classes, I rarely see them, and I browse a lot of the WotC char-op forums. By the logic of +2 to the attack stat + dwarven feats = balls awesome, we should be knee deep in Dwarven Battleminds, and I rarely see them at all. All of them are Half Elves. Even the Wisdom based ones.

I do admit though, Dwarvens are now a primo choice for second wind abuse for Wardens. The real winner in that race though, is the Mul, who can take all of the Dwarf second wind feats (including the epic one that gives him second wind as a free action), and human feats!

Ultimately this is a boon for Dwarves but nothing really earth shattering in the long run.

 

[thalmin]

I could also see that elves get +2 to int or dex, +2 wis. As it stands now, we have no clear statement about the elf stats.

Is there a summary of the new stat options for old races?

From the Red Box preview thread

Racial ability adjustments:

• Dwarf: CON and (STR or WIS)
• Elf: DEX and (INT or WIS)
• Halfling: DEX and (CHA or CON)
• Human: one choice

 

[UngeheuerLich]

From the Red Box preview thread

We also had elf: dex and int, no choice... but i guess it was a mistake there...

 

[Gortle]

Hitting is, far away away, the most important thing in 4e. Not for the damage, but for the riders on nearly every power. Despite the fact that the Dwarf was -1 to hit over every other optimal choice for a Fighter (and debatebly a -2 since you wouldn't ideally use a +3 prof weapon as a Dwarf), they were still optimal for many builds.

This change takes the Dwarf from top tier Sky Blue, to Gold. There is no mechanical reason, ever, to play a Str/Con Warden who is not a Dwarf with this change. Ditto a lot of Fighter builds. Str/Con Runepriest, ditto. Dwarves have the best feat support of any race barring maybe, maybe, Eladrin.

Yes it is a big benefit to what was already a strong race. But the speed penalty for a dwarf warden is still a drawback. Every now and then it costs an action. Human defender will have better defenses. Dragon born fighter still was their minor action breath weapon for marking.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

And Dragonborn could easily get +con as alternative which will make it very strong (as their racial abilities use con)

 

[MrMyth]

Then you're making an unoptimal choice for any class that is Str/Con. Really straightforward. Before there were trade-offs between races. Dwarves sole downside for several classes/builds was the lack of a racial bonus to Str. Now there isn't.

Also Humans don't get a third At-Will anymore anyway.

They do if they want to. The racial power is an option they can choose instead of the 3rd At-Will.

I think you're vastly overestimating the differences between dwarven fighters and others. Dwarves make really tough fighters, and good damage if lower accuracy. Dragonborn can do more damage with forced movement and knocking people prone. Humans can be better at shrugging off conditions. Even getting into non-ideal stat groups, Halflings can be harder to hit, Elves better at making sure attacks land, Eladrin good at getting where they need to go.

Depending on what you are looking for, other options are on the table. If the dwarf had flat out the best attack bonus, damage, defenses and hitpoints... you might have a point. But even the well optimized dwarf isn't going to have the best attack bonus (with is focus on hammers/axes), or defenses (with possible focus on Str/Con). He'll have good defenses, and damage, and be at the top on hitpoints and personal healing (with minor action Second Wind), with dwarven stability as a very nice trick.

But plenty of options remain viable, and competitive. Even non-optimized builds work just fine alongside the character.

It's a good build. But plenty of good builds already exist in the game. Deva's make great Swordmages. Elves make great archers. If they haven't ruined the game, I doubt good dwarven fighters will, either.

 

[keterys]

If you gave my human fighter the option to change to a dwarf fighter, I definitely would not.

Honestly, I'm starved for feats as it is... losing a feat would mean I'd have to drop something that nets me 20 temp a fight or drop +5 init & +2 to Insight and Perception.

He's got an 11 Con... at 18th level. I've never once been knocked unconscious (though if I was a dwarf I _would_ have been since I'd be down a feat, resulting in less hp), and never come _close_ to running out of surges. So getting 2 extra Con isn't helping me much.

The only times I've ever Second Winded or considered it were off the Ring of the Dragonborn Emperor, to make sure I stayed up until the healer's turn. Otherwise I'll take the +20 to +50 to surge value thanks. I'm sure I would have considered it more as a dwarf, but I do have literally 10 uses for my minor actions so I'm okay doing something else instead.

And, yeah, I like swords. +1 attack is good stuff. And I'll be 21st pretty soon, so weapon focus will be +3 instead.

It's possible I'd be better off as a Shifter (Str Wis) or Minotaur (ditto), but honestly their racial benefits don't impress me at all, and I like the human feat options. I wouldn't mind the extra couple damage per round, but human still gets bonus feat, bonus at-will, bonus to defenses... yeah, no, human is definitely working out well for me.

 

[AngryMojo]

1.)2.) If you can't shrug off status effects as a defender, you built your character wrong. Course if you're a human Fighter you also built it wrong, so.

I'd like to know how this is true as well. I played a human fighter for quite a while in a campaign, and he was great. The third at-will for a fighter is much better than you'd think, and the extra NADs are great. I'll easily take those as a tradeoff for 2 hp and one surge I'll never use anyway.