Races and Classes cover on Amazon!

[Baby Samurai]

I will definitely purchase it, for many reasons, and over here in the UK it should only cost around £10 (a pack of cigarettes and a six-pack).

 

[Prism]

I submit to you it's valid for me to ask how this book could possibly be worth $20 of my money, when it seems so overpriced compared to magazines, novels, or reference books. And asking that question does not imply I am illiterate.

To be honest I doubt this book is worth the money to you from what you have written. However there are plenty of people out there who would barely think twice about spending $20 on a couple of glossy mags, filled mostly with adverts just for a train journey. There are probably at least three of us in our gaming group who will buy this book even if we only read it once, have a discussion about it and file it away on the shelf.

I guess most people who buy this book will be those who do not use the internet for their D&D info or those who get paid well enough that think its worth $20 to get maybe an hour or two of an enjoyable read. It costs me about that to go to the cinema for a couple of hours. Personally I don't think its overpriced for me compared to the other things I'd spend the same cash on

And I think page count has little bearing on the matter to me. I'd rather have a 96 page concise book than 200 pages of rubbish. If I was to buy it and find it to be poor then I'd be more worried about the release of 4e than the loss of $20

 

[Maggan]

I pay $20 for a years subscription (actually 3 years for my favorite magazine.)

Out of curiosity I have to ask; what magazine gets you a 3 year subscription for $20?

/M

 

[Ashrem Bayle]

It is becoming apparent that our positioning of the books is off and we need to demonstrate why we think the books are worth picking up.

Now there's a thought.
Specifically, I want to know what value these books have after the 4th edition core books come out. Why should I pay $20 for a book that will be useless in just a few months?

 

[Mercule]

Now there's a thought.
Specifically, I want to know what value these books have after the 4th edition core books come out.

This seems to be a running theme from many of us in this thread. Until I see it addressed, the only assumption I can make is that the answer is "little to none".

Edit: Just to clarify, I didn't really expect an immediate answer. This conversation was mostly over a weekend and on a board that doesn't belong to WotC. Any time Mr. Rouse, etc. spend here is attention for which I'm grateful.

 

[takasi]

Has anyone else mentioned that this could be a collectible item? How many people bought the 30 years of adventure coffee table book? Whether 4.0 fails or succeeds, the preview books will be keepsakes.

It could also have value from now until 4th edition is out. It might help DMs prepare their campaigns for next year. It might also help persuade new players to join and stop older players from leaving.

Also, I'm sure there were some people who picked up Dragon magazine in 2000 just for the preview content and had no use for 2nd edition material. If they were willing to buy at least three of those issues for that purpose then this book is priced right.

Also remember that there are more people who don't play D&D than people who do. And there are many more people who play WoW, read Harry Potter and watch Lord of the Rings and don't play D&D but might. These people might not know there's a 4th edition coming out. They may know there's a 3rd edition, but never got into it because they don't want to feel like "n00bs". With 4th edition, they might want to get in on the "ground floor". Seeing a book like this might attract them to pick it up so they can be a 4th edition "expert" in their circle of non-D&D playing (but possibly future D&D gaming) friends.

Also, let's say the material was not presented online. At all. There was no way to get a preview of 4th edition until May 2008 when Keep on the Shadowfell comes out.

Going further, let's say no on ever visited EN World or WotC or any other message board to speculate about 4th edition until May 2008.

Let's say we valued our leisure time at $1 an hour (low balling). Just how many man hours total do you think we spend speculating about 4th edition? What if you weren't allowed to do that anymore? WotC has the right to close shop and reveal everything to us in May 2008. No spoilers, no articles. If someone posts about D&D on a message board with speculation, they are sued. Extreme draconian measures are made. And in the end 4th edition still comes out next year and still rocks.

Don't you think all this speculation is worth spending $20 on a couple of articles to help WotC get by until 4th edition comes out?

There's quite a sense of entitlement I'm seeing. As though we hardcore gamers need to know everything. It's their intellectual property, not ours.

 

[Mercule]

Has anyone else mentioned that this could be a collectible item? How many people bought the 30 years of adventure coffee table book? Whether 4.0 fails or succeeds, the preview books will be keepsakes.

The rest of your points, I see some merit. Not so much this one, though.

My 1E DMG is a collectible/keepsake because the game was good. As I've said before, though, I find "coffee table" books to be a rather silly concept.

 

[takasi]

The rest of your points, I see some merit. Not so much this one, though.

My 1E DMG is a collectible/keepsake because the game was good. As I've said before, though, I find "coffee table" books to be a rather silly concept.

If you had a good time on these boards speculating about 4th edition, then the preview book is a keepsake for that period of speculation, not the edition itself. It will go next to the Spined Devil I hope to get on World D&D Game Day.

 

[Imaro]

Has anyone else mentioned that this could be a collectible item? How many people bought the 30 years of adventure coffee table book? Whether 4.0 fails or succeeds, the preview books will be keepsakes.

Just a quick observation, but these books can be had for less than a dollar on ebay now. Maybe if there was a low print run or something these would be colletible, but I don't see them as collectible in any way right now.

It could also have value from now until 4th edition is out. It might help DMs prepare their campaigns for next year. It might also help persuade new players to join and stop older players from leaving.

And this is one of the things I personally would like further clarification on. From other threads I got the impression that these books don't represent what will necessarily be in 4th ed. If so the very thing that sells someone on the game may not actually be in the game. This in itself could be bad as far as new players go.

Also, I'm sure there were some people who picked up Dragon magazine in 2000 just for the preview content and had no use for 2nd edition material. If they were willing to buy at least three of those issues for that purpose then this book is priced right.

The difference here is dual value. If in the end you decided not to go with 3e, well then you still got some value out of the magazines...from what we know now that won't be the case with these products.

Also remember that there are more people who don't play D&D than people who do. And there are many more people who play WoW, read Harry Potter and watch Lord of the Rings and don't play D&D but might. These people might not know there's a 4th edition coming out. They may know there's a 3rd edition, but never got into it because they don't want to feel like "n00bs". With 4th edition, they might want to get in on the "ground floor". Seeing a book like this might attract them to pick it up so they can be a 4th edition "expert" in their circle of non-D&D playing (but possibly future D&D gaming) friends.

I'll give you this one...though I'm not sure how likely it will be a new player will see these, know what they are and purchase them with no prior experience with D&D. If anything these books could confuse new players who think they are actually buying the game...or those who know it's a game and wonder why these books don't have rules in them.

Also, let's say the material was not presented online. At all. There was no way to get a preview of 4th edition until May 2008 when Keep on the Shadowfell comes out. Going further, let's say no one ever visited EN World or WotC or any other message board to speculate about 4th edition until May 2008.

Then WotC would probably be forced to pay alot more in advertisement. In fact I'd go so far as to say this would hurt 4th ed. more than it would WotC's customer base.

Let's say we valued our leisure time at $1 an hour (low balling). Just how many man hours total do you think we spend speculating about 4th edition? What if you weren't allowed to do that anymore? WotC has the right to close shop and reveal everything to us in May 2008. No spoilers, no articles. If someone posts about D&D on a message board with speculation, they are sued. Extreme draconian measures are made. And in the end 4th edition still comes out next year and still rocks.

Huh? What if unicorns were real? I'm not trying to get snarky, but this is...fantasy. These type of extreme measures would, I'm willing to bet, push way more people towards being content with theior 3.5 games. You know TSR went this route and lookwhere it got them.

Don't you think all this speculation is worth spending $20 on a couple of articles to help WotC get by until 4th edition comes out?

There's quite an sense of entitlement I'm seeing. As though we hardcore gamers need to know everything. It's their intellectual property, not ours.

I'm sorry, WotC wants to sell something to me...they don't have to acknowledge my sense of entitlement...but however they go about reeling me in, it better get me interested in a positive way and excited about what they're trying to get me to purchase. Otherwise whatever form of advertisement they've chosen has ultimately failed.

 

[takasi]

Just a quick observation, but these books can be had for less than a dollar on ebay now. Maybe if there was a low print run or something these would be colletible, but I don't see them as collectible in any way right now.

I haven't seen the hardcover that cheap. But it's still something to collect, whether now or in the future. It doesn't necessarily have to maintain its monetary value to make you feel like you've added something to your shelf that's going to stay there for years to come as a keepsake.

The difference here is dual value. If in the end you decided not to go with 3e, well then you still got some value out of the magazines...from what we know now that won't be the case with these products.

It's not dual value if they're not going to play the old edition at all.

Heck, sometimes I've bought magazines like Inquest and Scyre just for the preview articles of D&D Miniatures. Nothing wrong with that.

I'll give you this one...though I'm not sure how likely it will be a new player will see these, know what they are and purchase them with no prior experience with D&D. If anything these books could confuse new players who think they are actually buying the game...or those who know it's a game and wonder why these books don't have rules in them.

That's all in how they write it up. If they want to lure in people then maybe the cover should say "Hey 4th edition is coming next year, check out this preview now!" or something. If someone is in Barnes and Noble and isn't playing D&D for the reasons I listed and sees this book it might get them excited about the new game.

Then WotC would probably be forced to pay alot more in advertisement. In fact I'd go so far as to say this would hurt 4th ed. more than it would WotC's customer base.

It doesn't appear that way. The fact that they're charging people for a preview book says they're pretty confident that the new edition is going to make them more money than their current sales.

Huh? What if unicorns were real? I'm not trying to get snarky, but this is...fantasy. These type of extreme measures would, I'm willing to bet, push way more people towards being content with theior 3.5 games. You know TSR went this route and look where it got them.

Who is it going to push? I think the overwhelming majority of gamers do not read the previews. It is for the hardcore fans alone. The average gamer, from my experience with face-to-face gaming, doesn't visit message boards and doesn't visit WotC.com. Most of them never bought issues of Dungeon or Dragon magazine either.

You should be lucky they give hardcore fans the support they're getting today. The fact that a rep is on this thread speaks volumes.