Races and Classes cover on Amazon!

[Dragonhelm]

Okay, so it seems to me that the book isn't pointless, it's temporary. There's a difference. Thing is, this book will be available for five months prior to the release of 4e. That's potential playing time in there, and five months is no small amount of time. It certainly is more useful than a lot of one-night modules.

Secondly, this book is out there to generate interest. Whether everyone on these boards buys it or not, there will be those who pick it up. This will generate discussion, which in turn generates interest. Maybe everybody on these boards won't care for it, but there will be enough people who do. Business-wise, it is a sound decision.

Here's my advice. If you like the idea, buy it. If you don't, then don't bother. Simple as that.

 

[Imaro]

MWP has a product, something of a fast-play/light version/intro package, for the Battlestar Galactica RPG called the Battlestar Galactica Quickstart. It's priced at $10 for the hardcopy, and we've sold a heck of a lot of them, but there were people who didn't like that we were selling what they considered to be "preview material" or the sort of thing some companies handed out for free. One of the most amusing comments I remember from these folks was: "I would buy it if it were free."

Cheers,
Cam

See, even something like this I could see shelling out money for...a hardback with actual play value, that's only $10 (But, I'm not a BSG fan...I am waiting for Supernatural though. ) .

These "preview" books on the other hand, offer no play value (that's the Shadowfell module that's another $30), No or little mechanics, and it's two of them (softcover) at $20 each. I just feel like in this day and age, with many companies offering free or very cheap priced quickstarts...expecting gamers to pay $40 for two preview books and $30 for a preview adventure is a little extreme, that's $70...about 2/3rds the cost of the corebooks. I would have been willing to pony up $20 for a "preview" that included a quickstart with stats for a few monsters that won't appear in the MM or perhaps a player race that won't be in the PHB (maybe the gnome?). Small things along this line would have given the preview books at least a little play value, and probably would have really increased the interest of players.

As it stands now these preview books, just seem...well, not thought out very well. They seem like quick-cash makers and offer very little, to no, bang for your buck. At the end of the day D&D is a game, so my question is...how will these products enhance my experience of this medium?

 

[Imaro]

Okay, so it seems to me that the book isn't pointless, it's temporary. There's a difference. Thing is, this book will be available for five months prior to the release of 4e. That's potential playing time in there, and five months is no small amount of time. It certainly is more useful than a lot of one-night modules.

What potential playing time. Even Scott himself on another thread stated there would be little to no mechanical information in the book...so what are you talking about, play time with 3.5 because I have that without buying two $20 preview books. At least with a module I can chop it up, and use pieces of it in different ways for my campaign...or even run it wholecloth for different groups.

Secondly, this book is out there to generate interest. Whether everyone on these boards buys it or not, there will be those who pick it up. This will generate discussion, which in turn generates interest. Maybe everybody on these boards won't care for it, but there will be enough people who do. Business-wise, it is a sound decision.

Here's my advice. If you like the idea, buy it. If you don't, then don't bother. Simple as that.

I think this is exactly the problem most people are having...paying for a product whose only purpose (in so far as we know now) is to generate interest in the real product. It's akin to a salesman telling you he's got this really great product that's so much better than your old one. Then when you ask him to tell you about it...he smiles and says, you have to pay him $40 to tell you about it.

IMHO, this salesman could have the best product ever created...but it's his job to sell me on it, not my job to sell myself. He starts tells me I have to pay him to talk about it and I'm outta there. This is only made more insulting by the fact that many game companies (who make nowhere near the money WotC does) do offer free or cheap quickstarts and previews. Like I said earlier, White Wolf offers a free quickstart game for every one of their lines before it's released.

 

[Felon]

Seems to qualify pretty handily as a rip-off.

 

[Oldtimer]

Okay, so it seems to me that the book isn't pointless, it's temporary. There's a difference. Thing is, this book will be available for five months prior to the release of 4e. That's potential playing time in there, and five months is no small amount of time. It certainly is more useful than a lot of one-night modules.

Yes, it's temporary. But there's no way these books can bring the whole of 4e in a way that I can actually get any playing out of it. On the contrary, they have been said to contain no actual mechanics.

But assuming they do contain enough to play, how can they be published six months before the actual rules? If the rules are that finished, why not sell us the complete rules at the same time? Waiting to sell the complete rules until June would amount to nothing less than trying to sell the same thing twice to us. A lot of us resent that.

Secondly, this book is out there to generate interest. Whether everyone on these boards buys it or not, there will be those who pick it up. This will generate discussion, which in turn generates interest. Maybe everybody on these boards won't care for it, but there will be enough people who do. Business-wise, it is a sound decision.

Are you telling us that selling a 96 page paperback for $20 is a sound way to generate interest? I think the only ones picking it up are us grognards with too much disposable income. The casual browser wouldn't buy a $20 paperback. So the only interest generated is among those already sold on the idea of 4e. To me that just says extra profit.

Here's my advice. If you like the idea, buy it. If you don't, then don't bother. Simple as that.

Wow, now why didn't I think of that?

Honestly, that is probably why Aldrac suggested "looking at a friend's copy". To find out whether he likes the idea or not. Without knowing more about the product, few people will buy it. An vague idea is not enough to base a purchasing decision on.

 

[Geron Raveneye]

The point I took was: what can we do and/or communicate about this book that might turn attitudes?

Maybe I'm completely off the mark now, but I bet if they had been made and marketed as "The Making Of D&D 4E" instead, with promises to get a good look at the last 2 years of design processes, concept art that had been suggested and replaced, the thought processes of the designers, snippets from playtesting games and the results from them, along with a preview for some of the polished rules, it probably still would have gotten a grousing about the price, but generated more "geek interest". Nothing us RPG geeks like more than digging into the inner workings of rules design and development, and compare them with our own ideas.

Also, it would have been a lot more than what we get right now from the developers' blogs, which only present very little real insight and information as to how and why some of the rules were formed. Preview books for $20 apiece will be viewed as useless as soon as the Core Books are out in every case, and overpriced for that. "Making Of..." stuff sells itself as much more interesting and less redundant.

My 2 €cents

 

[Felon]

Geez, what's with the Tiefling fetish?

One or two pictures does not a fetish make.

They're a core race. Get used to seeing them as much as we'll be seeing all the other demi-humans.

 

[Mercule]

It is becoming apparent that our positioning of the books is off and we need to demonstrate why we think the books are worth picking up.

I think so. What I want to know is:

-- What will this book add to my game?
-- Does it have enough info for me to start intelligently shifting the mechanics of my 3.5 game before June? If not, what does it have that the 4E PHB/DMG/MM don't?
-- Will I still be getting use from it in July? How about in March?

I don't buy art books. I like art and all, but it adds to another product, rather than being one itself (at least for RPGs).

I like developer commentary and sidebars -- next to the appropriate rules. I won't care about why things are changing until I see what they're changing to.

So, other than commentary, art, and material that will be included in the actual 4E game, what do these "preview" books have?

 

[JVisgaitis]

I would just wait until someone pirated it. And most of the details will probably be posted here anyway once it is released.

Are my eyes deceiving me? I can't believe you have the nerve to actually post this. Its because of people like you that small companies like mine go out of business because every single sale determines whether or not we're around to produce the next product.

I guess to you WotC is "the man" and they have tons of cash and it doesn't hurt. Wrong, its stealing! How would you like it if I came into your house and took your computer? Sorry for the rant, but this struck a bad nerve. I've had people send me links of all our products on various torrent sites. Makes me wonder if that's the reason why my sales are so dismal that past six months...

You don't like the premise of the book, fine. Don't be a jerk and advocate piracy on a message board where the people you are stealing from visit frequently! I'm shocked Scott has been so nice in his response. The thought of anyone posting this makes me mad, but to actually see someone have the nerve to post it here of all places? Unbelievable.

 

[Betote]

One or two pictures does not a fetish make.

They're a core race. Get used to seeing them as much as we'll be seeing all the other demi-humans.

That's the point, actually: some of us would like to see them as much as the other ones. Until now, we have seen 4 covers with a total of 1 demon, 1 dragon, 2 humans and 2 tieflings. No elves, no dwarves, no halfling, not even a goblin or an orc, but 2 tieflings.

I can see where the "someone at WotC has a tiefling fetish" idea comes from... :\