Races and Classes--I has it!

[Zweischneid]

Besides, D&D had shapeshifting druids before WoW, so you're just saying that WoW has ripped off D&D before, so D&D becomes WoWish, if it uses its own concepts!?

Yup.. sorry, but in that regard WoW killed D&D and took it's stuff. Lamentating the fact that you did it first wont change that. If it would, a certain Gary Gygax would still be helming the D&D franchise now.

Shapeshifting druids simply is WoW now! Live with it.

 

[Plane Sailing]

No more WoW comments in this thread please, I don't want to see it derailed.

Thanks

 

[MojoGM]

I work in publishing so I might be able to answer what's going on. Most stores get their shipments a week or so ahead of time so they can put the books out on the shelf on the day of release. Some stores don't honor that and simply put the books out when they are received. It's bad form but lets threads like this happen. Same thing with the last Harry Potter book that some guy got shipped before the actual release date. The bigger the book, the more this bothers the publisher.

I work in publishing as well, and boy, do we come down like a hammer on stores that break those titles with a strict street date. Usually they don't get the next one early, and if they are a repeat offender they don't get them ever.

It usually keeps stores in line.

Anyway, back on topic. I have this reserved at my local game shop and hope to go pick it up tonight.

 

[Liryel]

Volume. Throw a picture of water at a person, he'll just get wet and maybe a little angry.. Aim a fire hose at him though, and he be getting bruised and knocked around. Aim a tidal wave at him and he's gonna get crushed.

How does throwing a bit of paper with a drawing of water on it get someone wet?

Sorry, couldn't resist.

You guys convinced me to buy a copy, sounds very interesting so far. Thanks.

 

[IanArgent]

Well, this thread may have convinced my wife to let me get it (with a gift cert to B&N, probably)

 

[Roman]

Druid
The current design for druids allows them to select wildshape a lot more often, but at a price(?). Druids select shapes they can assume in much the same way that other classes pick spells and manoeuvres {so presumably they may have 'at will', 'per encounter' and 'per day' shapes}. They designed different forms for different needs - hawk for spying, mouse for sneaking, bear for tearing the orc king apart. To give an incentive to walk around in human form there will be a selection of nature themed spells to give some utility and ranged attacks.

Sounds great - I am looking forward to the druid.

Stand-out comment
One comment from Mike Mearls which stood out to me (amongst many stand-out comments throughout, I hasten to add), is one which gives me particular delight.

"As a rule, immunities are almost completely gone from D&D 4e. In their place we have damage thresholds to reflect resistances and invulnerability.

Also good!

A fire elemental might ignore a wizards fireball, but an elder red dragon can still blast it into oblivion with its breath weapon"

And here comes the bad part.

If there is one sort of critters that ought to retain immunities it should be creatures actually composed of the given energy type. I find it ridiculous that a fire elemental will be vulnerable to fire. A red dragon being vulnerable to 'stronger fire'? Sure, not problem. But it is ludicrous to have fire elementals that can be directly harmed by fire.

 

[Dragonblade]

I can believe that fire elementals can be hurt by fire. What if two elementals fought? No way one could defeat the other?

I think of elementals as creatures formed from a bit of some element that is inhabited and animated by a spiritual entity.

Its not that dragon's fire hurts the fire that composes the elemental. Its that it is simply so overwhelming that the elemental's life force can no longer maintain any cohesion against the onslaught. The spiritual "bond" that animates the flame and binds the spirit to the fire disintigrates and thus the elemental is destroyed.

 

[Commonblade]

I can believe that fire elementals can be hurt by fire. What if two elementals fought? No way one could defeat the other?

I think of elementals as creatures formed from a bit of some element that is inhabited and animated by a spiritual entity.

Its not that dragon's fire hurts the fire that composes the elemental. Its that it is simply so overwhelming that the elemental's life force can no longer maintain any cohesion against the onslaught. The spiritual "bond" that animates the flame and binds the spirit to the fire disintigrates and thus the elemental is destroyed.

You know, I agreed with elementals being immune to their element. Right up until this post. Nice thought processes on this Dragonblade.

 

[mhacdebhandia]

My grognardism might be showing here, but I definitely prefer the traditional type druid (nature priest, scholar, healer, and arbitrator) to the shape-shifty battle beast.

That is not and has never been the character of the D&D druid, not even in First Edition.

Not that it's always been so shapeshifting-oriented either, but you're arguing for a fiction.

 

[JohnSnow]

I can believe that fire elementals can be hurt by fire. What if two elementals fought? No way one could defeat the other?

I think of elementals as creatures formed from a bit of some element that is inhabited and animated by a spiritual entity.

Its not that dragon's fire hurts the fire that composes the elemental. Its that it is simply so overwhelming that the elemental's life force can no longer maintain any cohesion against the onslaught. The spiritual "bond" that animates the flame and binds the spirit to the fire disintigrates and thus the elemental is destroyed.

Yeah!

Besides, it's not like we humans are immune to damage from fleshy things.