Racial Paragon levels from UA

[Bront]

I don't see how an Elf is different to roleplay than an Elf 3. That's me, though.

Probably true, but it's probably more likely the difference between a Wizard 4 and an Wizard 1/Elf 3

 

[orsal]

Anyone who wants to Min/Max can already without too much difficulty (We don't disallow Fighter/Barb multiclass for example)

A fighter 2 / barbarian 2 who point-buys an 18 strength, has at most 19 strength, or 21 if half-orc. A barbarian 1 / half-orc paragon 3 with the same initial stats has 23 strength. New possibilities. The level 3 boost to an ability score that already had a racial boost to begin with, matches something that can't be achieved before level 8 by other methods. Whole new possibilities are opened for a character dedicated to a single ability stat. Just by taking racial paragon levels it's easy to become, at relatively low level, the strongest or most agile or hardiest character in the RDI.

I don't see multiclassing generally as being about minimaxing; it's about creating a tailor-made mix of abilities. Generally the most extreme abilities come from taking a single class all the way. The racial paragon ability boosts make extremes possible that go beyond the core classes. The question on my mind is, do they go enough beyond the core classes to unsettle me?

I'd worry more as to if they fit in the LEW world, not if they can be abused to Min/Max, as I don't think that's much worse than anything else out there.

I don't see a problem there. What paragon classes do is to establish that the (e.g.) dwarf paragon abilities are in some sense typically dwarven, potentially accentuating the differences among the races. I think that's a good thing.

 

[Manzanita]

I'm going to stick my neck out a little here, and vote Yes.

I've seen Paragon classes in play before. I think they add an interesting multiclass option, one that can be used to butress various PC builds.

Orsal's point is a good one. I don't know that I want to see a 23 str half orc any time soon. But considering we had a 1st level orc PC w/a 22 strength, we've already kind of let that cat out of the bag. There's a price to pay for that sort of specialization. I've also taken a step back on my concerns on balance. Parties in LEW are rarely all of the same level. Widely disapate power levels are often seen w/in the same party. A paragon focus on one ability score might just fit right in. In a sense, that's an advantage of the persistant world. Your PC won't have the same companions his whole career. I feel there is less stress on players to create an iconic type of PC to fill a needed roll in a party. Since parties are constantly changing, the player is more free to create the PC of his choice, w/o excessive concern for party balance.

 

[Manzanita]

I thought I'd bump this thread. I've been toying with racial paragons recently. I think they do add nice multiclassing options. Characters in persistant worlds like this can last for a long time. As long as the world persists and the player stays interested and the character doesn't die. Could be many years. As this time passes, the character concept can (& perhaps should) change. The player may become board with the PC's current path. In a situation such as this, I think it behooves us as a persistant world to offer characters options. Racial paragon are a good option in this regard b/c it is a class any PC can take later in 'life', and is flexible enough to be useful to many different builds. We've added some new judges since this thread started & perhaps it's worth bumping.

Orsal's min/max concerns are certainly valid. It would be an eye-opener to see a 3rd level orc PC with a 24 strength, but he would't have much else. It wouldn't appeal to me to play such a PC, but if it did appeal to someone, maybe it would be fine. He still wouldn't be the toughest PC out there.

 

[orsal]

After more deliberation, I've decided my earlier misgivings are exaggerated. Overall, these classes are not too powerful, and I expect they will not be overused. I vote Yes.

 

[LogicsFate]

And thus it is accepted! three yesses and all that