Radiant keyword

[DarkLord Of DForce]

Wow. Because our DMs are they way they are, and there seems to be a lot of variation in opinion on whether or not Radiant dmg (or Radiant in the description) makes a power have the Radiant keyword for criticals, I e-mailed WOTC directly. This is their response:

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Hello Ronald,

Thank you for contacting us. Here are the answers to your questions:

1. A Radiant weapon does not make your powers radiant, unless the weapon specifically states that it does.

2. Temple of Light is an attacking spell, so no, other spells do not gain the Radiant keyword.

Please let me know if you need anymore help!
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Am I interpreting this wrong? I take it that a Radiant weapon will not qualify any power for a crit range (18/19/20). Only if the power used had Radiant in its desc. already.

I also take it that just because something else adds Radiant damage to your attack, for example Temple of Light, it doesn't become Radiant and qualify for crits either.

Thanks.

 

[DracoSuave]

One thing to keep in mind.

It depends on -how- the weapon deals radiant damage.

If it does so through a property, than the power does not get the Radiant keyword.

However, if it does so through a power (like Flaming Weapons or Frost Weapons) then because you're using an item power with another power, that other power inherits the keywords from that item. In such a case it -would- be a Radiant power.

A power otherwise only gains damage type keywords if it has a Varies keyword, in which case it takes up any keywords for damage types you choose for it.

 

[Iron Sky]

Boy, just when I thought the whole keyword thing was all dead and buried, it resurfaces with more confusion.

There were multiple CS responses months ago in a similar thread confirming that weapons added their Keywords to Powers used with that Weapon.

The whole issue came up again with weapons as implements when the Swordmage came out, with the similar results.

CS responses that different people have received often contradict each other, and so aren't extremely reliable. CharOp boards and AFAIK most of ENWorld agrees that they do (there's a sentence in the PHB somewhere that affirms it too, but I forget where and don't have my books).

 

[DracoSuave]

The thing is that 'weapons add their keywords' isn't correct.

The correct statement is 'item powers add their keywords to powers they are used with' and derives from the Player's Handbook, Rules As Written.

Not all weapons use powers to change or alter damage types, however, so it is erroneous to state that -weapons- assign keywords. It is only powers, and only when those powers are actively used with another power.

 

[DarkLord Of DForce]

Guess I'm being dense here, and so I apologise, but does that mean a Radiant weapon does or does not?

I mean, if I take my turn, as a free action turn my Radiant weapon "on" (all dmg is Radiant dmg), then hit with something like Overwhelming Strike, which is not a Radiant power, then crit on it at 18 or 19, with Student of Caiphon for example, is it a crit or not?

Thanks.

EDIT: Okay, I looked up "Radiant weapon" up at D&D Insider. It says this:

Power (At-Will • Radiant): Free Action. All damage dealt by this weapon is radiant damage. Another free action returns the damage to normal.

So since its a power, and not a property - it should count towards crits, right?

 

[DarkLord Of DForce]

Okay, I e-mailed WOTC again, and I clarified my previous bumbling attempt to ask a question about this, and now they are saying *yes*, if you have a Radiant weapon and its "power" not property does grant it Radiant dmg, so it would crit.

Sorry folks - my rather imprecise wording is what got things confused. Its now clear as mud again...

 

[abyssaldeath]

Okay, I e-mailed WOTC again, and I clarified my previous bumbling attempt to ask a question about this, and now they are saying *yes*, if you have a Radiant weapon and its "power" not property does grant it Radiant dmg, so it would crit.

Sorry folks - my rather imprecise wording is what got things confused. Its now clear as mud again...

Anytime you send a question to CS you need to be a specific as possible and give them as much, accurate, information as possible. They have a habit of not actually looking up things to see exactly what you are talking about. They usually answer your question based solely on the information you give them.

 

[Destil]

Unless I'm mistaken the dichotomy of damage type vs. keyword for weapons that change damage is as clear as mud in the rules as written. Both sides of the argument have a case and I wouldn't really slight a DM for allowing/disallowing keyword related feats and powers in such cases.

The issues are:
A) The damage changing powers of weapons don't state they add the keyword, just change the damage type.
B) The general rule for damage type vs. keyword is unclear. PHB 55 is usually used by both sides: "For instance, a power that deals acid damage is an acid effect and has the acid keyword." It's unclear if this means adding/changing the damage type implicitly adds/changes the keyword, or if it's just an insight into the design of such powers and ones listed in the PHB.

Customer Service generally makes up the answers as they go, and often end up giving responses that conflict with the rules as written. They're not particularly authoritative.

 

[abyssaldeath]

Unless I'm mistaken the dichotomy of damage type vs. keyword for weapons that change damage is as clear as mud in the rules as written. Both sides of the argument have a case and I wouldn't really slight a DM for allowing/disallowing keyword related feats and powers in such cases.

It's actually clearer then mud.

Like racial powers and class powers, magic item
powers often have keywords that indicate their
damage or effect types. When you use a magic item as
part of a racial power or a class power, the keywords
of the item’s power and the other power all apply. For
instance, if a paladin uses a flaming sword to attack
with a power that deals radiant damage, the power
deals both fire damage and radiant damage

The issues are:
A) The damage changing powers of weapons don't state they add the keyword, just change the damage type.

Yes they do. The weapons damage changing power has the damage type keyword. So as per the rules I quoted from page 266 any power you use through that weapon will have that keyword while the weapons power is being used.

B) The general rule for damage type vs. keyword is unclear. PHB 55 is usually used by both sides: "For instance, a power that deals acid damage is an acid effect and has the acid keyword." It's unclear if this means adding/changing the damage type implicitly adds/changes the keyword, or if it's just an insight into the design of such powers and ones listed in the PHB.

Page 55 is the general rules for keywords. See page 266 for the appropriate rules.

Customer Service generally makes up the answers as they go, and often end up giving responses that conflict with the rules as written. They're not particularly authoritative.

Too true.

 

[Destil]

It's actually clearer then mud.
Page 55 is the general rules for keywords. See page 266 for the appropriate rules.

Thanks! I had missed this before and only seen the above quoted when the discussion came up.