Rain of Steel = being hit by an attack

[FurryFighter]

In my logic, any effect or zone isn't an attack, it is the afterthought of an attack. You make a bunch of fire everywhere, next turn nobody attacks the guy in fire. He's on fire, and you are right, wrong place wrong time.

But this is a stance and not an aura. And in addition to that it is an "ATTACK POWER".

effects and zones are rolled to create them, and are kept up by the concentration of the person creating it.

Something that causes damage is an attack. Even shouting harsh words is a verbal attack. Whats wonky is not the game itself, but the ambiguity of the language called english, with all its analogous and metaphorical meanings. its why I like strict and functional languages. otherwise, in english, there has to be errata and constant explanations of specific nature.

I rate it an attack, as it causes damage, even if its something not rolled. it causes damage, and this part

as long as you are able to make opportunity
attacks.

sounds like its opportunity attack that automatically hits, so no roll is required.

I think the teleport effect would come into play. what is an attack? could it also be an at will of the wizard kind that does damage from far away?

I think bend space is meant to be that useful and interesting, that it will always be capable of being used, and is a judgement call for the DM to make, whether to use it or not at any moment, based on the tactical needs of the enemies of the PCs.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Yes, I use attack roll as a reference as well. Actually if a fighter gets to attack roll everyone with rain of steel he should be able to mark them as well (obviously not the writers intention).

The way I see is is - like dito above -its like an aura power. Remmember that aura is just a game term, it does not mean magic (remmember the rat swarm? Or the drake swarm? Just bites all around).

It should be noted: Auras seem to only exist for monsters. PCs often get abilities - for examples, zones centered on them - that look pretty similar to Auras, but they never get something called an aura.

I don't know why the designers decided to handle it this way. Maybe they thought introducing another keyword applicable to PC powers didn't serve a purpose.
Maybe it is because monster auras are pretty much inherent things. They don't usually reuqire a power to activate. Noting them seperately and explicitely probably makes sense then.

 

[FurryFighter]

It should be noted: Auras seem to only exist for monsters. PCs often get abilities - for examples, zones centered on them - that look pretty similar to Auras, but they never get something called an aura.

I don't know why the designers decided to handle it this way. Maybe they thought introducing another keyword applicable to PC powers didn't serve a purpose.
Maybe it is because monster auras are pretty much inherent things. They don't usually reuqire a power to activate. Noting them seperately and explicitely probably makes sense then.

well, pcs can do amazing things by divine power, mental will, or brute strength, but they're still your "average humanoid". monsters are aberrant, and as such have unnatural powers (considering the fantastical world the game is set in, something thats unnatural to THAT would have to be pretty insane).

 

[ahammer]

ok let start with the fact that the book does define an attack.
page 269 making an attack. and you have to roll

and if you look at the dmg pg 55 you see when they talk about minions they say
damage from an attack or from a source that doesn't require an attack roll.
(this says there are ways to do damage that are not attacks)

I can see why this could be a bit murky but If there is no attack roll there is no hit.
I would say it is not an attack but a source of damage.

on the point of the attack of opp. it is just a judgment of wetter the fighter can keep his damage aura up.

 

[FurryFighter]

ok let start with the fact that the book does define an attack.
page 269 making an attack. and you have to roll

and if you look at the dmg pg 55 you see when they talk about minions they say
damage from an attack or from a source that doesn't require an attack roll.
(this says there are ways to do damage that are not attacks)

I can see why this could be a bit murky but If there is no attack roll there is no hit.
I would say it is not an attack but a source of damage.

on the point of the attack of opp. it is just a judgment of wetter the fighter can keep his damage aura up.

So you're saying there are things defined as attacks and that dont require a roll?

a hit causes damage. Or are you saying that the damage is caused spontaneously, with no real cause, despite the fact its some PC swinging a sword around? even if its a zone, it has to hit the person, just like a fart, to cause them distress. olfactory or epidermal, a hit is a hit.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

So you're saying there are things defined as attacks and that dont require a roll?

I don't read this in his post.

I think this reads that you can take damage from an attack, or you can take damage from a source that doesn't require an attack roll. Of course, this could be a "non-exclusive" or, but typically that's something found in formal logic, not normal language.

 

[MrBeens]

You cannot take immediate actions on your own turn. Rain of Steel kicks in at the start of the foulspawn's turn. Ergo, the foulspawn cannot use this power to react to Rain of Steel.

Re quoting this as everyone seems to have missed it and it nullifies the whole argument.

 

[DracoSuave]

Re quoting this as everyone seems to have missed it and it nullifies the whole argument.

STOP MAKING THINGS SIMPLE AND MAKE SENSE YOU YOU GUY YOU.

Oh yes, this too.

 

[Flipguarder]

STOP MAKING THINGS SIMPLE AND MAKE SENSE YOU YOU GUY YOU.

Oh yes, this too.

And as I said a few posts after admitting his point. I only wanted to see if others disagree about a similar situation excepting that it's NOT on the targets turn.

 

[Tony Vargas]

'Attack' is used ambiguously in 4e. It can refer to an attack power, an attack roll, an action expended to use an attack power - possibly other things as well, like verbal abuse. It's just hard for a writer to always be writing 'uses an attack power' or 'makes an attack' roll, instead of 'attacks,' when the meaning is generally obvious, and the precise phrasing clumsy.