Raise Dead and its Social Implications

[dead]

I allow Raise Dead type spells to be fairly easily accessable by PCs but it costs slightly more than in the core books.

I've done this since 1E, but over the years I've DMed I've always wondered about the effect resurrection would have on the campaign world. Here's some musings I came up with:

1) Assassination is now obsolete, or nearly so.
Only elite assassins can now TRULY kill someone. The assassin must now: a) use a magical weapon/poison that kills the soul; b) use a magical weapon/poison that prevents resurrection; c) use a magical device that allows him to spirit away the body. (Destroying the body outright is not a viable option since True Resurrection can counter this.)

2) Those who cannot afford resurrection rebel against priests and the rich.
Peasants and the like who cannot afford resurrection often suffer the death of loved ones and would be irrate about not having access to this "answer to death."

3) Humanity no longer TRULY fears death.
Humanity acts with more bravado and recklessness because friends can simply resurrect each other. How does this affect the world? Are there more heroes? Are there more wars?

Anyway, just some thoughts.

Maybe I'm thinking about this too much. I mean, I've successfully dodged the issue for many years already in my campaign.

 

[Wombat]

Sounds like some of the ideas found in Transhuman Space.

Yes, the limitations on these matters are primarily those of 1) how many clerics of the proper level exist and 2) how much are you willing to pay for this privilege?

Consider another implications -- if you have found a mass murderer, you could potentially kill him one time for each victim...

All sorts of way the world could twist about under these thoughts.

 

[Piratecat]

Dead, how do you handle it when a King dies? For instance, normally the next in line takes the throne -- but what if the dead king comes back? What if the king BEFORE him comes back? Do people hand back power easily, and is there an effective "statute of limitations" for no longer getting to be king?

Easy raise dead has some fascinating consequences; I find this one especially interesting.

As a PC in my game can raise, resurrect, and true resurrect people - and has done so fairly publicly in the past - he is now deluged with letters, pleas, and pilgrims who seek him out in the hopes that they will return a lost loved one to them. It's kind of disturbing.

 

[GravyFingerz]

I have been thinking about this issue for a campaign I want to start up; basically, in this setting, ressurection would not be available unless it was very much necessary. Someone who died performing an important quest would receive it, but not joe merchant or even a king. Basically, raising the dead is seen as very much against nature. Naturally, if people find out a PC has been brought back from the dead, they will shun him and avoid contact with him, since the PCs continued existance is unnatural.

Im thinking instead of imposing a loss of XP and loss of a level for resurrections (which I hate), imposing another mechanic that makes sense. For example, maybe the soul isnt as attached to the material plane as it once was, and the PC suffers a -3 on saves against death effects. Stuff like that. Also, a PC who has been brought back from the dead can will his soul to leave his body, suffering a painless death of sorts. Few PCs would do it, but its there.

 

[zen_hydra]

The books of author Steven Brust deal with this subject to some degree. The protagonist of many of his books, Vlad Taltos, is an assassin in a land were revivification is common place.

 

[Hand of Evil]

Every now and then this question always comes up.

You also have to think gods and domains when building your world myth. If you have an assassian guild it is possible that any gods that they follow would work to prevent people from being brought back to life.

you also have to think about the will and the law. What rights do the dead have? Once a person dies in my games it is "lets see if those boots fit!" This could be of a bigger issue if a person was a king. I can see the poor selling their dead for cheap labor but that could be seen as slavery. In real life grave robbing was praticed until it became too profitable and people were killed just to be sold (if you ever get the chance see the History Channel show on it, great stuff).

Then there is the wanting to come back. Hey, you just made it to the happy hunting grounds, you may not want to come back.

 

[Vrecknidj]

I have a group of characters that are isolated from the rest of the world. There are no clerics of sufficient level to cast these kinds of spells, but the leader has a staff that has raise dead on it. So, when someone dies, everyone has to figure out if that person is really worth being brought back, because once the staff's charages are expended, they're out of luck.

It's been great fun watching them squirm, especially over NPCs if they can't decide how valuable the NPC really is.

Dave

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

Funny that a guy named "dead" would bring up the social repercussions of Raise Dead

It brings back to memory a Graphic Novel that I really like, Chroniques de la Lune Noire, wherein one of the latest books

Spoiler

the last scene is the hero lying on the floor, dead at the end of his enemy. First page in the next volume: They raise the hero. Big whoop

What I'd like to do with the Raise Dead mechanic is make people fear it, because it has a chance of "changing" the character that's brought back (think Pet Cemetary).

You're right in thinking that the social implications of having access to raising magic would be mind-blowing. People who don't have access to it would probably indeed hate the people that do have access to it, and could very well develop some kind of superstitious phobia of it.

Or the clerics that can actually perform the ritual could become very protective of it. Then they could become the target of intimidation, or they could develop a monopoly. There could be some "rogue" clerics that perform raisings out of the confine of a specific church hierarchy...

The possibilities are clearly endless.

 

[dead]

As a PC in my game can raise, resurrect, and true resurrect people - and has done so fairly publicly in the past - he is now deluged with letters, pleas, and pilgrims who seek him out in the hopes that they will return a lost loved one to them. It's kind of disturbing.

This is very cool, PCat. When my PCs are that powerful I'll steal it.

At the moment, PCs (and anyone else in the campaign) have to make a special saving throw if they want to come back from the dead.

This is my first draft of the rules and I haven't playtested it yet:

- The PC must make a base Will save vs. a special DC which equals: 35 - character level - Charisma bonus. So a 10th level character with 18 CHA (+4 bonus) would have to make a Will save against DC 21.

- Retries are allowed, but with consequences. If the first save fails, another priest can attempt the resurrection, or the same priest once he has advanced one level, but with each retry the PC makes, the DC increases by 2.

 

[Deadguy]

I've always liked playing with the consequences of raise dead type magic in D&D campaigns I have run. In my earlier campaigns I assumed that characters of a level to cast these spells were so rare that the question of what happens had to be dealt with uniquely each time it cropped up. Even PC clerics were reluctant to use this magic on anyone, fellow PCs included!

With the advent of 3E I had to reconsider things - these characters are rather more common so the consequences are different.

In my first 3E campaign, the Shattered World, I decided to put certain limitations on the magics, both mechanical and social. Firstly, bringing someone back from the dead can go wrong, imbuing the body with either the wrong spirit, or with something altogether darker and more dangerous. Additionally the breach that the spell creates in the Astral Plane draws other entities from the Realms of the Dead. It isn't impossible to be raised then killed again as a powerful undead attacks the clerical party! Consequently, people regard those brought back from the dead with some suspicion; indeed some lands simply treat a rasied person as still dead, with loss of rights and possessions as though they had never been brought back. Others permit the person to continue but as a new individual; assets pass as though they were dead, contracts lapse, and marriages are dissolved. Mechanically, my reworked cleric (the theurge), being more philosophical in bent, is more inclined to multiclass, thus delaying access to these spells. So far, raise dead hasn't been an issue, and I suspect that all the PCs would be reluctant to seek resurrection magics for a fallen comrade.

My newest camapign is going to be by the book by and large, so I have to accept that there are a fair few clerics capable of raising the dead in the cities and metropolises. Most cultures will regard resurrection as a natural thing, something else that the wealthy can afford. Will that lead to resentment? Of course. But so too does a full belly and a life of idleness for the rich, so it isn't going to add many new social factors. On the specific point of assassins, the best guilds always include the services of a cleric or wizard who can bring them the aid of a barghest, which certainly slows down the resurrection process. And bodies can be tucked into bags of holding and kept in extra-dimensional spaces to make the cleric's life harder. But yes, assassination isn't necessarily a 'once and forever' action; often the intent is simply to cause disruption at a critical time in your enemy's activities. I intend to include a high level NPC adviser to an important kingdom who is known as Many-Born since he's been killed and brought back so often.

Oh and PCat:

Do people hand back power easily, and is there an effective "statue of limitations" for no longer getting to be king?

I like the idea of a statue of limtations! Perhaps some sort of advanced golem that kills people who should no longer be alive?

Actually, that idea has some potential... flicks through MM looking at the Inevitables...