Random Question - Creatures with powers that resist the prone effect?

[Shadowslayer]

Just a quick question. DMed my first solo encounter last night (1st one in 4 levels of play)

Basically it consisted of
knock it prone.
knock it prone.
knock it prone.
knock it prone.
ad naseum

after its 2 action points were used up it, became pinned down basically.

Any critters that have powers or interrupts that give any assistance to this problem.

 

[OnlineDM]

First of all, remember that you have the ability to alter bad guys as you see fit - no requirement to use "off the shelf" monsters. If a monster would be more interesting with a certain power added, then add it!

The monster could have the dwarf's power to resist falling prone with a saving throw.

You could give them the equivalent of Acrobat Boots to let them stand as a minor action.

You could make them so gigantically heavy that when they fall prone, they shake the earth and damage / knock prone on an attack in, say, a close burst 2 (versus Fortitude, probably).

Be creative, and give your monsters whatever powers you think would make them more fun. And remember that solos (especially pre Monster Manual 3 / Dark Sun / Monster Vault) were vulnerable to these action economy problems (more often with daze/stun/dominate than just prone). Feel free to take a page from the book of the newer solos and let the solo do something on 10 + its initiative count, and let that something be standing up from prone if it's on the ground.

 

[Mithreinmaethor]

Just a quick question. DMed my first solo encounter last night (1st one in 4 levels of play)

Basically it consisted of
knock it prone.
knock it prone.
knock it prone.
knock it prone.
ad naseum

after its 2 action points were used up it, became pinned down basically.

Any critters that have powers or interrupts that give any assistance to this problem.

SOLO monster does not mean it is supposed to be thrown against a party alone.

 

[Klaus]

Just a quick question. DMed my first solo encounter last night (1st one in 4 levels of play)

Basically it consisted of
knock it prone.
knock it prone.
knock it prone.
knock it prone.
ad naseum

after its 2 action points were used up it, became pinned down basically.

Any critters that have powers or interrupts that give any assistance to this problem.

Being prone doesn't make one helpless. The creature takes a -2 penalty to attack rolls, must relie on crawling to move about and grants combat advantages to melee attackers (but gains a +2 to all defenses against ranged attacks). Other than that, it fights as usual. And a simple move action allows it to stand up.

 

[DracoSuave]

What role of monster was it? How were they knocking it prone? Need more context here.

 

[Shadowslayer]

Yeah sorry it was a quick post. Basically it was a young Green 5th level solo.

I tried to keep it reasonably mobile, but both my Warden and my Monk have some pretty good abilities to knock creatures prone.

It was an OK encounter...the dragon did his damage for sure, and if we'd been fighting to the death it would have taken down a number of PCs, if not all of them. (The PCs did not go in fresh....which was the plan.) So it wasn't like they hammered the dragon mercilessly. He got his licks in.

I guess the prone thing was just a problem for me. I had a hard time wrapping my head around the idea of a dragon being as easy as an Orc to put prone. (and I understand about using other ways to describe the prone effect) And once the guys got the idea to keep knocking it down, it got kind of dull for me.

It was the knocking it down that killed this guy's "initiative +10" move. In the Young green's case, its "Instinctive Flyby" which allows the dragon to either perform Flyby Attack as a free action OR automatically shake off any daze, stun, or dominate effects. (I probably should have made it "or get up from prone" too.)

But thanks to the guys for posting. I didn't know about the Dwarven ability to save vs prone. That's cool and makes a lot of sense for a lot more creatures then just dwarves. Considering there's level 1 critters with that ability, I don't feel too guilty adding it when it makes sense. I'm just conscious of trying not to "nerf" the PCs because they found something that works.

As an aside, does it make sense that most critters that walk on all fours would likely have that "Surefooted" ability?

 

[Christian]

Being prone doesn't make one helpless. The creature takes a -2 penalty to attack rolls, must relie on crawling to move about and grants combat advantages to melee attackers (but gains a +2 to all defenses against ranged attacks). Other than that, it fights as usual. And a simple move action allows it to stand up.

My party did this to a solo yesterday ... Assuming Shadowslayer's problem is the same one I saw--it's not so much a mechanics issue, as just one of a rather dull combat. When the solo can move around, it can catch more of the party in close blasts, or zip out and smack ranged strikers or controllers, or do other neat things. Our barbarian went into a rage with the effect of knocking opponents prone on every hit, and the BBEG spent most of the combat on its back. On its turn, it would stand back up, but then it was stuck (once its action points were spent) either burning its standard to move away & not attacking anyone (which would just be followed by the barbarian moving up & knocking it down again next round), or staying where it was, surrounded by a defender and two melee strikers with two ranged leaders and a controller raining flaming hot death on it from across the room. (There was one other monster in the fight, but our other defender had it hopelessly locked down in a doorway.)

It still killed three PCs, but that was mainly because it was just one bad MF.

 

[DracoSuave]

Yeah sorry it was a quick post. Basically it was a young Green 5th level solo.

Thanks for that.

First, an adult green dragon only has one encounter power, everything else is at-will or refresh. So let's see what it can do.

1) Any time someone does not move, he knocks them prone.
2) Luring Glare can be used to shift people around.
3) His breath weapon slows enemies
4) He moves 8 and flies 10 which makes him faster than almost anyone.

Did you capitalize on this dragon's strengths? Green dragons are like real estate, it's all about location location location. They tend to live in forests, which implies lots of cover, and lots of difficult terrain.

Green dragons also rely heavily on traps and hazards. They have the ability to make people go wherever the hell they want to. Their opposition often doesn't have the same benefit.

Imagine something set up like this:

. T . T . T D T . T . T .
. . . . . D . . . . . . .
. T . T . T D T . T . T .
. . . . . D D . . . . . .
. T . T D T . T . T . T .
D D D D D . . . . . . . .
D T D T . T . T D T D T D
. . . . . . . . . D D D D
. T . T . T . T D T . T .
. . . . . . . . D D . . .
. T . T . T . T D T . T .
. . . . . . . . D D . . .
. T . T . T . T D T . T .

Obviously it wouldn't fight in a perfect square field, but let's use this for an example of how a green dragon fights.

The D represents Difficult Terrain. The Ts represent pit traps that are set up at regular intervals. The perception chance to catch them is fairly moderate. You might miss them, but spotting them isn't the important part of the challenge. Notice that each pit trap is only one square; the dragon never fears falling in. Players on the other hand will have to make athletics or acrobatics checks to move diagonally in any square or risk falling into a pit.

The dragon will generally play hit and run tactics, hiding behind the difficult terrain barriers. It will generally single out a target, and concentrate its efforts on him. If it can't melee without getting into danger, it might Luring Glare one of the meleers it would face into a bit. It will use its breath to slow down players, making that difficult terrain extra good. And if it can isolate one party member, it will remain there, knocking them into a pit, then when they fail to move, knock them prone, preventing their motion, knocking them prone, preventing their motion... and so on and so forth.

When it gets surrounded, it uses it's fly-by attack to get out of dodge (combined with a Luring Glare of course).

This is how a dragon fight should go, it's not a bunch of people surrounding a dragon and gooning it (well, white dragons maybe) but they tend to fight on their terms, and their terms are unpleasent for you.

 

[Shadowslayer]

Christian: Yup you pretty much nailed my issue.

DracoSuave: Thanks for this input. It was my first time doing a solo as a 4e DM. Don't know why, but I've always been leery of them. The fun factor in the scanario you lay out is high! You've definitely given me some food for thought.

 

[Mithreinmaethor]

To restate what I posted before. Just because it is a SOLO creature does not mean it is supposed to be thrown at a part alone.

Here is a recommended Encounter from the Monster Manual:

Level 7 Encounter (XP 1,500)
✦ 1 young green dragon (level 5 solo skirmisher)
✦ 2 kobold slyblades (level 4 lurker)
✦ 1 kobold wyrmpriest (level 3 artillery)

If you were trying to make it a level 5 encounter you could modify the above encounter by removing a creature or two to suit your whim.