Random thoughts on Gamma World

[King of Old School]

Semantics. If two, or more, countries attack each other with multiple nuclear weapons you have a nuclear war.

The outcome of this would be a very significant environmental and social problem for the entire global population. It is also difficult, or maybe impossible, to know for certain that ANY nuclear exchange would be limited to the countries initially involved.

If India and Pakistan launch nuclear weapons at each other, that IS a nuclear war. What would China's response be? No one knows.

If a middle eastern country and Israel ever launch nuclear weapons at each other, that IS a nuclear war. Who else might get dragged into such a scenario? No one knows.

I think the important distinction here is between nuclear war and, to borrow a phrase from Crimson Tide, nuclear holocaust. The probability of a full nuclear exchange that would destroy civilization as we know it is remote, because we no longer have a situation where two big players are facing each other in a Mexican standoff and one of the players is dangerously willing to take a hit in order to "win" (i.e. the USSR). Most of the nuclear players today are more driven by pragmatism than ideology, even so-called Communist China, and pragmatists don't believe in pyrrhic victory. The ideologues amongst the nuclear nations (chiefly North Korea, but you can include India and Pakistan to an extent) simply don't possess the power to initiate a full-scale global holocaust. Certainly any nuclear war would be an environmental disaster, but we have environmental disasters on a disturbingly regular basis (Chernobyl, Exxon Valdez, Bhopal) and none of them has yet led to the collapse of civilization.

Is the scenario you describe mathematically possible? Certainly. As likely as nuclear holocaust was during the '60s-1989? No.

The certainty that you express has no basis or foundation in reality. For example, who would ever have guessed that the assassination of Arch Duke Francis Ferdinand on 28th June 1914 would plunge the world into the first world war?

Actually, a number of people guessed that the assasination could potentially plunge Europe into a general war, which is why there was such a flurry of diplomacy immediately preceding hostilities. What they couldn't guess was how bloody and protracted the war would turn out to be, largely because they didn't understand the implications of modern military technology.

KoOS

 

[Biohazard]

Any person who thinks that the possibility of a nuclear war taking place now is any less than in the 70's or 80's is hopelessly ignorant. Looking at North Korea, India and Pakistan, and the Middle East is all that is needed to quickly see that the possibility of a nuclear war is a very real and present danger today. The idea that BB and company needed to change the focus of GW for some real world reason is ridiculous.

Wow--didn't mean to offend you so deeply. In spite of what you might think, I'm actually not "hopelessly ignorant." What I was saying is that the threat of global nuclear annihiliation is no longer at the forefront of most people's consciousness as it was during the Cold War. Rather, the global culture today is far more preoccupied with the threat of localized nuclear wars (North Korea, India, Pakistan, etc.) and terrorism, especially with the threat of biological and chemical weapons (much easier to acquire and use than nukes). Genetic engineering, cloning, and computer nanotechnology are also areas of great interest and concern. The new Gamma World reflects these concerns.

BTW, there's some venom dribbling down your chin. You may want to wipe it off.

 

[Krieg]

I think the likely-hood that any of these nations could actually launch an effective nuclear missile is remote.

I wouldn't place much faith in that belief if I were you. Just an FYI.

 

[Tetsubo]

I wouldn't place much faith in that belief if I were you. Just an FYI.

I think I will any way. As I suffer from depression all ready, I don't need to add fuel to the fire.

Love the quote BTW.

 

[Unseelie]

Let's be clear... the real issue isn't exactly that a nuclear war or holocaust is less plausible. The real issue is that we understand that radiation doesn't work that way. No amount of radiation is likely to turn rabbits into the anthropomorphical equivalent of the Michigan Militia. Nor is it going to cause you to grow new limbs, or suddenly be able to shoot heat rays from your eyestalks.

Nano isn't that likely to do that either, but it has more internal logic than radiation and mutation. Mutation doesn't work that way, and radiation isn't likely to cause that to happen, and certainly isn't going to cause it to happen to YOU. Your kids... damned unlikely, but theoretically plausible.

The radiation angle, IMO, was ditched because it was 'silly'. WW isn't going to publish a 'silly' game, sadly.

My objections to the new version of GW are because of the derth of player options, regardless of what pseudo-scientific arguement is used to justify them. It's awfully expensive for a Player's Handbook when you factor in how little player info you get. Not enough mutations, not enough cyber, little to no anthro information, no map, etc., etc. Oh, and using new, non-standard rules for psionics rather than what already exists. That annoys me even more when I consider that new rules are not terribly balanced and can easily result in player death for a bad roll.

Sure, they may publish more books to give that to me, but my gaming budget makes it fairly unlikely that I'll shell out $70+ to get what should have been in the first book.

 

[tburdett]

Wow--didn't mean to offend you so deeply. In spite of what you might think, I'm actually not "hopelessly ignorant." What I was saying is that the threat of global nuclear annihiliation is no longer at the forefront of most people's consciousness as it was during the Cold War. Rather, the global culture today is far more preoccupied with the threat of localized nuclear wars (North Korea, India, Pakistan, etc.) and terrorism, especially with the threat of biological and chemical weapons (much easier to acquire and use than nukes). Genetic engineering, cloning, and computer nanotechnology are also areas of great interest and concern. The new Gamma World reflects these concerns.

BTW, there's some venom dribbling down your chin. You may want to wipe it off.

That is funny. Some people take any form of disagreement as a personal attack. You seem to be one of those people. Oh well.

 

[Biohazard]

That is funny. Some people take any form of disagreement as a personal attack. You seem to be one of those people. Oh well.

Hmpf. I overreacted big time to your original reply. I apologize. I've got to learn to stop posting in the early afternoon...

 

[Krieg]

I think I will any way. As I suffer from depression all ready, I don't need to add fuel to the fire.

Fair enough.

I'm guessing you've got your fingers crossed hoping for a successfull SDI program.

(Hang in there BTW, depression IS beatable.)

As for the quote, I'm reaching the age where I'm starting to find myself talking about "the kids today" and sometimes I need a wake-up call that some things never change.

My objections to the new version of GW are because of the derth of player options, regardless of what pseudo-scientific arguement is used to justify them. It's awfully expensive for a Player's Handbook when you factor in how little player info you get. Not enough mutations, not enough cyber, little to no anthro information, no map, etc., etc. Oh, and using new, non-standard rules for psionics rather than what already exists. That annoys me even more when I consider that new rules are not terribly balanced and can easily result in player death for a bad roll.

Sure, they may publish more books to give that to me, but my gaming budget makes it fairly unlikely that I'll shell out $70+ to get what should have been in the first book.

The GW PHB is an odd fish, it almost comes across more like .pdf teaser of what is to come in future products rather than a self-contained book in it's own right. While that is well & good, it is definitely unacceptable in a $40 "flagship" product.

 

[tburdett]

Hmpf. I overreacted big time to your original reply. I apologize. I've got to learn to stop posting in the early afternoon...

Sometimes (read: most of the time) my replies are very blunt. I do not take the time to couch what I am trying to say in soft language. Your reaction was not entirely unexpected, or unjustified, just a little over the top.

 

[Dark Psion]

If you have not purchased Gamma World yet, and are considering it, take a look at the new Darwins World 2 hardcover first. It should be in your FLGS any day now. In my opinion, it is a much better post-apocalyptic game that seems to be more 'Gamma World' than the official Gamma World release.

Got it this weekend and it is a great book!

It is both Player's guide and GM book and is ready to play.

You want mutants, you got it. The Mutant is a template that you can apply to any creature; Human, animal or plant. There are 50 mutations and 25 defects. There are also a bunch of Mutation feats to make better use of your mutations, the best of these are the neural feats that let you master your psionic mutations without fear of your head exploding.

This book also has Advanced classes, Prestige classes and Epic classes, many of which would work for any other D20 Modern setting and even D&D setting as well, the Symbiot would be a great one for Rangers. It also has a new starting class, Post Apocalyptic Hero, that has more of a setting based group of talent trees.

You want Technology you got it and I do have say I love the art here for all the weapons. It would have been so easy to just use Star Wars blasters and Star Trek phasers, but here they created some original designs for the weaponry. I especially like the look of the Gauss Guns, the old GW Slug Pistols.

On the GM side we have a variity of setting options aside from the default "Twisted Earth" setting, which those of you with depressions might want to avoid This section does deal with the mature aspects of a post apocalyptic setting quite well, dealing with slavery, drug use and other "ugly elements" of this type of setting.

We have an overview of the various cryptic alliances, many with prestige classes and special equipment. Sample inhabited areas from a small village to a necroplios. We have a bunch of mutant monsters as well, many of which have rules for using them as a player race

Lastly we have a quick look at the Twisted Earth setting, of which there is a map inside the front cover.

If you really want to play Gamma World, well it is a good thing that both books are based on D20 Modern, but this book has the best rules to start with, then you can add the bits & pieces from either or both to create your own post apocalypse.