Ranged Rogue Tactics & Comb. Adv.

[Castellanox7]

Hey all!

First off, thanks for the help on my previous post; the group I'm in is well into it's 6th session with a homebrew game. I don't have my char. sheet with me (and I'll post it when I get home), but I have a question about getting CA with a ranged rogue. I'll try to spell out the basics you'd need below, assuming I can remember them...

I've got two questions, one a bit more intricate than the other.

1. Aside from Bluffing and praying to Tymora (deity of choice, BTW) that I roll a 20, what other ways can I obtain CA without having to go in and become a pin cushion?

2. I read in the condensed rulebook that a stealth check can be made at the end of the MOVE phase of your turn.

Assuming that... I have a "Player friendly" DM (), my character has a hand crossbow (load free) and the table/grid below...

​

If my character is in Square 1 is this progression legal (grey boxes mean walls/decent cover):

• Start his MOVE action by moving to Square 2,
• Firing at the mob(s) he can see (gaining CA if first strike)
• Finishing his MOVE action (or using his MINOR as a MOVE action) by ending his turn at square 3
• Making a stealth check for concealment.

Thanks in advance, (I KNEW I should have been a ranger... ) If, once I get my char sheet up, anyone has any comments/concerns about it, that'd be great!

Thanks again, everyone,
-CastX7
--------------------------------------
Lvl 2 Eladrin Rogue

+5 Dex


Trained in:
Acro. (9),
Ath. (8),
Arcana* (9),
Thv.(12),
Stealth(10),
(either Percept/Insight)

Weapons:
+1 Targeting hand xbow (+10 to hit/attack)
Short Sword
Shuriken

Skills:
Sly Flourish
Gloaming Cut

Feats:
Backstabber
Sneak in the Atk.

*No mage/arcana user in party, I had the highest pre-retrain score of 3.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Are you a rogue or a thief? (I.e. the Essentials build). I'm assuming a classic rogue.

But no, the progression is not legal. What you want there is the ideally Cunning Sneak class feature and the Deft Strike At Will power. Use your Deft Strike to jump out of cover and shoot (or throw a dagger) and your move action to hide again. You basically want powers that allow you to move and attack as part of the same option.

 

[webrunner]

A few errors:
1. you can't use a minor as a move, Minor's the bottom of the heap.
2. If you get seen during an action, or attack during na action, you lose stealth at the end of that action

Assuming you are already stealthed in position 1, possibly from all 3 (since you could have stealthed when totally obscured and then sidled up to the edge of the wall on a previous turn), you can hit the right two (and possibly the left, depending on the interpretation of the rules involving drawing lines along the edge of walls) without moving at all. This is because you draw lines of effect from a choice of corners of your square, and the upper right corner is "out there" enough to several targets. That said, you would get a -2 to the attack due to the lines intersecting the rightmost wall, if you were targeting the rightmost mob. You would then get CA to this attack, and immediately lose stealth.

Then, you can run back to superior cover and re-gain your stealth.

Also, you can use a move-and-attack ability (such as Deft Strike) to move-and-attack at the same time, and then move back afterwards. Since the move and attack are the same action, you would lose stealth after the attack action, and still get CA.

 

[Castellanox7]

[MENTION=4139]Neo[/MENTION]n: I've had this char run through so many instances of Char. creator that whatever was there to begin with was lost. As a result, I'm winging this as I go. I'll look at deft str. for retrain. Thanks!

[MENTION=63727]webrunner[/MENTION]: Thanks for the clarification on minor v move!

 

[Neonchameleon]

It might be worth seeing if you can retrain into an Essentials Thief - a variant of the rogue. Tactical Trick is awesome for getting combat advantage and you do more damage from round to round - at a cost of getting no dailies.

Oh, and I forgot the Distant Advantage feat - gain CA if two of your allies are flanking a target. (But seriously, use your shortsword some of the time - it keeps the pressure off the tanks).

 

[DracoSuave]

Take rogue powers that give you combat advantage, cause the enemy to grant combat advantage, or assign a condition that has combat advantage as part of its effect.

You'll find that the PHB has 2 powers at every level designed to do just that. Combat Advantage is, without any help from other players, stupid easy for a rogue to get without taking a single feat or flanking a single enemy.

Once you've looked at that, then you realize that there's feats like Distant Advantage, there's rogue tactics like Cunning Sneak, and its various powers... ranged rogues have been viable since the very beginning, and only have gotten more viable over time with greater support.

 

[Castellanox7]

Thanks Neon, I'll check the book out and with my DM!

[MENTION=8777]Draco[/MENTION]: I put the "stupid" in stupid easy. Aside from the encounter bluff, first strike or taking a feat, how can I easily get CA?

 

[DracoSuave]

Thanks Neon, I'll check the book out and with my DM!

[MENTION=8777]Draco[/MENTION]: I put the "stupid" in stupid easy. Aside from the encounter bluff, first strike or taking a feat, how can I easily get CA?

Look at the rogue powers list. Seriously look. Even just a search for the word 'advantage' will give you a very extensive list. Then look for things like 'blinded' 'dazed' 'knocked prone' etc.

It's a pretty simple concept: If you wish to make X happen, look first at powers that make X happen. That's a good start.

 

[Kerranin]

Look at the rogue powers list. Seriously look. Even just a search for the word 'advantage' will give you a very extensive list. Then look for things like 'blinded' 'dazed' 'knocked prone' etc.

It's a pretty simple concept: If you wish to make X happen, look first at powers that make X happen. That's a good start.

Yes, you can with encounter/daily powers, but sooner or later you'll have to revert to at-will powers and they don't grant CA.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Yes, you can with encounter/daily powers, but sooner or later you'll have to revert to at-will powers and they don't grant CA.

Preparatory strike does. Unfortunately it's damage is so low you won't want to use it.

Deft strike does with some cover or concealment.

And yeah, the rogue list is full of ways to get CA.

Oh, and if you have MP2, there's a rogue build that is exactly what you want - bonus to crossbows instead of light blades, plus the ability to stealth just by moving.