D&D 5E Ranged Rogues. Tasha's Changed My Mind

[Zardnaar]

Mistwell pointed this out before can cinfirm. Last week I saw a Tasha's steady aim Rogue build using a hand crossbow.

Drow Rogue with elven accuracy.

And a twinned haste. Enabling two sneak attacks a round.

I don't think he missed ever even with -2 to hit firing through allies.

And rolled two crits.

Without steady aim I still think a Rogue should melee using ranged as needed.

Derp.

 

[J-H]

He still only gets one sneak attack per turn, even if he is Hasted. The only way to get multiple sneak attacks in a round of combat is by making an off-turn attack via OA or Commander's Strike.

 

[Blue]

And a twinned haste. Enabling two sneak attacks a round.

Sneak Attack isn't once per Attack action, it's once per turn. So you can't do it a second time during your own turn even with Haste.

 

[NotAYakk]

Haste double sneak attack requires one simple step.

You use your haste action on your turn to make an attack.

You then ready an attack for, say, your ally picking their nose. Or moving. Or making an attack. Or anything that happens off of your turn.

That readied action then gives you another sneak attack.

The 5e Rogue is resistent to most forms of 5e charop except a few.

1) Sneak attack crit-fishing.
2) Off-turn sneak attack.
3) Weapon attack cantrips.

All of them are different than other weapon users optimizations; even their crit-fishing is a bit different, because they are trying to get 1 crit in a turn, but not so late that they can't reliably hit if they don't get the crit.

 

[aco175]

The aim ability does make it easier for ranged sneak attack, even better since you now have advantage and then the bad guy does not need to be next to an ally.

It has not come up that much in my games, mostly because I use flanking and the rogues do that instead.

 

[auburn2]

Mistwell pointed this out before can cinfirm. Last week I saw a Tasha's steady aim Rogue build using a hand crossbow.

Drow Rogue with elven accuracy.

And a twinned haste. Enabling two sneak attacks a round.

I don't think he missed ever even with -2 to hit firing through allies.

And rolled two crits.

Without steady aim I still think a Rogue should melee using ranged as needed.

Derp.

First he can only get one SA per turn. Second steady aim is a bonus action and only works on the first attack after you use it. Third if the DM was letting you take steady aim and shoot at enemies at will every turn, with only a -2 to cover, he was not playing the enemies very smart.

That said a Rogue with sharpshooter, xbe and a hand crossbow can do a ton of damage, he ignores cover and once he lands his SA, switch to -5 and do +10 damage.

 

[Zardnaar]

First he can only get one SA per turn. Second steady aim is a bonus action and only works on the first attack after you use it. Third if the DM was letting you take steady aim and shoot at enemies at will every turn, with only a -2 to cover, he was not playing the enemies very smart.

That said a Rogue with sharpshooter, xbe and a hand crossbow can do a ton of damage, he ignores cover and once he lands his SA, switch to -5 and do +10 damage.

I said two per round.

Another poster explained what the rogue was doing.

They only got the advantage to hit on the hasted attack.

The AoO was a normal attack.

 

[Zardnaar]

Haste double sneak attack requires one simple step.

You use your haste action on your turn to make an attack.

You then ready an attack for, say, your ally picking their nose. Or moving. Or making an attack. Or anything that happens off of your turn.

That readied action then gives you another sneak attack.

The 5e Rogue is resistent to most forms of 5e charop except a few.

1) Sneak attack crit-fishing.
2) Off-turn sneak attack.
3) Weapon attack cantrips.

All of them are different than other weapon users optimizations; even their crit-fishing is a bit different, because they are trying to get 1 crit in a turn, but not so late that they can't reliably hit if they don't get the crit.

Thanks for explaining it's what the rogue was doing.

 

[TheSword]

The haste is pretty conditional and would benefit any class. Not sure it’s necessary for comparison purposes.

I do like steady aim though, it’s reliable. There is a lot of competition for bonus actions as rogue such as dash or disengage. I do think a lot of people functionally do this every round by hiding as a bonus. This effectively removes the need for that which can only be a good thing as a DM.

 

[NotAYakk]

The haste is pretty conditional and would benefit any class. Not sure it’s necessary for comparison purposes.

Haste on a rogue doubles the rogue's damage output. 100% more damage.

Haste on a level 11 paladin adds 33% to the paladin's damage output, ignoring burst.

Haste on a level 11 fighter adds 33% to the fighter's damage output, ignoring burst.

So it is necessary.