Ranger combo Rogue...ideas?

[IamTheTest]

I want to combine the ranger and the rogue for my new campaign. Basically Im giving the ranger rogue BAB and sneak attack and taking away spellcasting and the more nature oriented abilities. Is this fair? What to you recommend?

 

[sequoia]

I'd recommend slowing down sneak attack dice to 7d6 by level 20 if you did that.... combined with favoured enemy....that's too tough!(IMHO)

 

[Khayman]

Maybe look at the Complete Warrior non-spellcasting variant ranger for ideas. They get increased movement rate and some temporary stat bonuses, and a bit of healing. More suitable for a survive-at-all-costs rogue-type.

 

[IamTheTest]

The reason there is a lack of spell casting is because in my world there is no divine magic. At the moment I have SA 1d6 at 2nd level and increasing at levels 4,7,10,13, 15, 17, 18, 19, and 20. I think that is pretty good. Am I missing anything? What would be good ways to limit this once the campaign is started (provided it proves to be overpowered)?

 

[Nifft]

Suggestions:

HD d6

Keep the combat styles, spells, and Ranger class ability progression (including Evasion at 9th level).

6 skill points/level, Rogue BAB & Rogue weapon proficiencies, Ranger skill list + Disable Device, Open Locks, Bluff, Sense Motive.
Or, these weapons: all Simple plus hand axes, shortswords, short bows and kukri.

At first level: Trapfinding, Track, Wild Empathy, and Favored Sneak Attack (+1d6 SA damage, but only vs. favored enemy).
At 3rd level, grant +1d6 regular Sneak Attack. Stacks with Favored SA when fighting Favored Enemy.
At 5th level they'd get +2d6 Favored SA, and a new Favored Enemy (still only +1d6 regular SA).
At 7th level, +2d6 regular SA (and still +2d6 Favored SA).
At 9th level, +3d6 Favored SA (and still +2d6 regular SA), and Evasion.
At 10th level, extra Favored Enemy.
At 11th level, +3d6 Favored SA / +3d6 regular SA.
12th level: Rogue Special Ability.
At 13th level, +4d6 Favored SA / +3d6 SA.
At 15th level, +4d6 Favored SA / +4d6 SA, and pick a new Favored Enemy.
16th level: Rogue Special Ability.
At 17th level, +5d6 Favored SA / +4d6 SA, Hide in Plain Sight.
At 19th level, +5d6 Favored SA / +5d6 SA.
20th Level: Rogue Special Ability, 5th Favored Enemy.

-- N

 

[Nifft]

Oh, hmm, no Divine spellcasting... okay, add Use Magic Device, and bump the HD up to d8.

-- N

 

[IamTheTest]

Okay. That is what I will do.

 

[Arkhandus]

Nah, I suggest going with your original idea and adding one or two specific roguish abilities to the class. The rogue BAB is a fair trade for the rogue Sneak Attack, in my opinion, or at least close enough. Taking away the ranger's spells and nature-oriented abilities (since there's no divine magic in your world to provide those abilities) weakens them a bit too much (I assume you're using 3.5?). I'd say add Trapfinding at 1st-level, Skill Mastery at one of the middle levels (somewhere between 8 and 13), and some other roguish ability around 16-20th level, preferably a stealth-related ability, but possibly Crippling Strike, Opportunist, or Slippery Mind (I'd prefer a stealthy ability though to keep the ranger good at sneaking since there'll be no rogue).

 

[Staffan]

For another perspective, you might want to check out the Scout class in Complete Adventurer. 8 skill points, d8 HD, no spells, and plenty of class abilities. They do not get sneak attack, but instead get an ability called Skirmish which does extra damage and gives an AC bonus if they move at least 10 ft in a round. It doesn't do as much extra damage as sneak attack, basically every other d6 of damage is exchanged for +1 AC instead.

 

[John Q. Mayhem]

I think that an almost-straight rogue with a few skill list changes and some ability changes (Track instead of trapfinding, f'rex) works great as a ranger. The wilderness rogue from UA basically does this for you, including adding some ranger abilities to the rogue special ability menu.