[Rant] Do editing/proofreading errors drive you mad, too?

[kenmarable]

I guess I'm in the minority (on this thread at least), but I could really care less about these errors. Of course, I don't really buy any Mongoose, and from the sounds of things, they are pretty bad. But, in my opinion, if it's understandable, then it doesn't affect my game playing at all, so I don't care. It's the game play that matters. If there's something that actually impacts game play (like differences in price), as someone else stated earlier, I just go with whatever is seems reasonable.

I guess I'm just the Anti-John Cooper. If a monster is missing skill points, or the hit points are wrong, I could honestly care less since it's only "on stage" (as WotC likes to call it) for a brief period and I play fast and loose with stats enough as it is to make combats and interactions more fun.

But that's just me. I can totally understand that mindset, I just don't have it EXCEPT when it comes to my own writing. Then every typo and missing word just jumps off the page and smacks me in the face (after it's been submitted, of course).

 

[Imperialus]

Dude...I don't get too worked up..but it certainly makes me not want to spend money on Mongoose products.

When you pick up a license as big as CONAN and then create an RPG that is pseudo-d20, plagued with multiple errors per page and a complete lack of "editing" it shows that you don't deserve to sell products. I feel bad for the writers....it's their name on the lid of those things and they're the ones that look bad.

Hey, the original Conan stories were riddled with spelling and grammar mistakes too. In Scarlet Citadel (one of the worst offenders) he spells "Barbarian" "Brrabrian".

 

[Slife]

Hey, the original Conan stories were riddled with spelling and grammar mistakes too. In Scarlet Citadel (one of the worst offenders) he spells "Barbarian" "Brrabrian".

At least it isn't the Eye of Argon.

 

[Ourph]

It's not as easy as it looks. Even with a Spell and grammer checker the computer doesnt catch everything and it takes along time. These companies, dont have the cash to do all the fixing you expect. I'd imagine the 30 price tag is just enough to keep them going. If you want error free books i'd imagine your going to pay for towards 45 bucks, and Im willing to pay less for more errors. I, just like WOTC dont have the cash for more error free books.

I just don't buy this line of reasoning. Most error-ridden RPG books have numerous contributors listed in their credits. You don't need to hire a professional copy editor at great expense to work a book over. The vast majority of errors that people are complaining about are glaring, you can't miss them if you actually sit down and read through the text (stuff like missing words, duplicated words, repeated sentences, etc.). If you've got 3-4 people working on a project it would take about one 8-hour day to divide the book into sections and have each of those people simply read a section thoroughly to catch those kinds of glaring errors. Do a quick spell/grammar check after that (let's say one more person working another half day) and you've probably eliminated 90% of the errors people here are complaining about. This is not the Herculean task that some people make it out to be. I find it very difficult to believe that putting in that minimal effort toward quality control is going to break the bank on a project. It simply requires the companies in question to make quality editing a priority rather than an afterthought.

 

[Voadam]

Classic one- the old 2Ed Monsterous Compendium entries for "Vampire" and "Vampire, Oriental" are identical.

I thought they had different pictures.

 

[Voadam]

Best typo I've caught for myself in proofreading that gets past spellcheck:

I noticed I had forgotten an "l" in "volunteer public fundraising". I was really glad to catch that one on my resume before sending it out.

I publish court cases professionally. Sometimes there are errors in copying from one electronic format into another such as our publishing software or from scanning in hard copies so I proofread every case I publish. My favorite catch was "The state of New Hampshire has not suffered a harem in this case."

 

[Mr. Beef]

I find it immensely frustrating to see all the editing and proofreading errors in various WotC books. I don't use 3rd-party materials much, so I don't know if those suffer from the same problems.

I have only purchased two or three third party books, mostly by Mongoose Publishing, and found they gave me headaches. I really did not notice the bad spelling and grammar, but I'm guessing the bad spelling is the reason why. That or the font is just bad.

In the Magic Item Compendium there is an item called a druid's vestment, IIRC. The item table states its cost as 3,750 gp. But in the description text the item is said to cost 10,000 gp. Quite a significant difference.

One could be the cost to produce the Druids Vestment, and the other is probably the cost to buy it. WotC is generally good about labeling this sort of thing, but I have not looked at the Magic Item Compendium so I cannot say for sure.

And of course there are all the sample characters for various prestige classes. Often when you read their stats, these characters don't fulfill the prerequisites for the prestige classes they are supposed to exemplify. :\

I noticed this too, but it does not bug me that much. The examples of characters with a PrC can be a bit off, but as long as the requirements to take the class are written out and not missing a thing then I'm happy.

Overall, minor tense changes in mid-paragraph I don't catch, and some spelling errors are okay because I know not everyone is going to catch everything whether it is checked by man or machine.

Just my 1/4 pound.

Mr. Beef

 

[helium3]

Option 3: Third-party companies have such a razor-thin profit margin as it is, that they simply cannot afford to hire more proofreaders/editors than they already do. They cannot afford to charge more per book--they already cannot meet WotC's prices, due to the size of their print orders--so there's nowhere for the money to come from. Thus, they do the best they can with what limited resources the market will allow.

Fair enough, I suppose. I've never published anything myself, so it's possible that I don't really understand how time consuming the process really is.

That being said, many of the errors that I routinely find in a product like Dungeon (does that count as 3rd party?) nearly pop off the page at me on a simple read through. They're even more obvious if you read the copy out loud. It's not like I have to stare at it for hours upon end just to find a single misplaced comma.

 

[The Human Target]

I just don't buy this line of reasoning. Most error-ridden RPG books have numerous contributors listed in their credits. You don't need to hire a professional copy editor at great expense to work a book over. The vast majority of errors that people are complaining about are glaring, you can't miss them if you actually sit down and read through the text (stuff like missing words, duplicated words, repeated sentences, etc.). If you've got 3-4 people working on a project it would take about one 8-hour day to divide the book into sections and have each of those people simply read a section thoroughly to catch those kinds of glaring errors. Do a quick spell/grammar check after that (let's say one more person working another half day) and you've probably eliminated 90% of the errors people here are complaining about. This is not the Herculean task that some people make it out to be. I find it very difficult to believe that putting in that minimal effort toward quality control is going to break the bank on a project. It simply requires the companies in question to make quality editing a priority rather than an afterthought.

You win the thread.

Well played.

 

[guildofblades]

>>If you've got 3-4 people working on a project it would take about one 8-hour day to divide the book into sections and have each of those people simply read a section thoroughly to catch those kinds of glaring errors.<<

So, an extra 32 man hours at roughly $25 per hour = $800.

For a book retailing at $30 and with a cost of goods sold (COGS) running $7, that leaves a gross profit of $5 per book when sold at wholesale. Slice away conventional operating expenses and you get down to maybe $2 left per book.

Who here believes the "average" RPG book will sell an extra 400 copies if only the editing was done better? Raise your hands please.

Note: My hand is NOT raised. Just the harsh reality of a niche market.

Ryan S. Johnson
Guild of Blades Publishing Group
http://www.guildofblades.com
http://www.1483online.com
http://www.thermopylae-online.com