Rant on d20

[TiQuinn]

Re: Re: Re: Rant on d20

Let's just replace the combat system with a hand of poker then. Poker's a fun game with well-established game balance.

Really, what do we want out of a combat system? A number of things, and a number of different things for different people, obviously, but some of the biggies:

• Emulates heroic action: feels like an action story
• Good gameplay: fast, simple, balanced, etc.

Heroic action certainly drifts away from reality, but it is grounded in the visual of two guys facing off with swords (or whatever). We don't want wanton unreality. We're only willing to suffer unreality where it matches heroic action conventions (our hero can take on hordes of scrubs, he can shoot an arrow of his son's head, etc.) or where more reality would cost us too much gameplay.

Absolutely! And we already have that! :-D

 

[mmadsen]

Absolutely! And we already have that! :-D

I think you missed the point. D&D provides simple, heroic combat, but with a lot of "wonky" unreality. Ideally we'd have a system as simple and heroic, but that made a bit more sense -- one where a hit is a hit, where healing a hero's scratch isn't harder than healing a peasant of a mortal wound, where meta-gaming players aren't tempted to jump off cliffs knowing their PCs will survive, etc.

 

[TiQuinn]

I think you missed the point. D&D provides simple, heroic combat, but with a lot of "wonky" unreality. Ideally we'd have a system as simple and heroic, but that made a bit more sense -- one where a hit is a hit, where healing a hero's scratch isn't harder than healing a peasant of a mortal wound, where meta-gaming players aren't tempted to jump off cliffs knowing their PCs will survive, etc.

No, I got your point...I'm just being a smartarse.

I just don't think the wonky unreality is all that wonky. As for the people jumping off 100' cliffs onto the rocks below because they think they have enough hit points, that's an easy fix. Use massive damage rules and adjust the roll with a huge penalty to virtually assure death.

 

[mmadsen]

It seems like the simplest way to make HP as-is work is to make healing magic match level like natural healing does. But if you do this healing instantly becomes much very trivial.

Healing doesn't have to become too easy just because the Cure spells scale with level. Cure Light Wounds could heal 1 hp/level, Cure Moderate Wounds could heal 2 hp/level, and so on. The 6th-level Heal spell already scales with level by healing all damage (~10 hp/level for an 18-Con Barbarian).

The downside to this is that low-level adventurers would only heal one or two points with a good healing spell, and they need healing even more than high-level heroes -- or rather, when low-level adventurers need healing, they need healing.

 

[Wolfen Priest]

This kinda reminds me of that episode of The Simpsons where the Mensa society takes over society-at-large, and with all their 'brilliant' ideas, they ruin it for everyone, turning it into a 'fruitopia.'

I think the game would be ruined by all these 'brilliant' innovations to the rules.

 

[TiQuinn]

The downside to this is that low-level adventurers would only heal one or two points with a good healing spell, and they need healing even more than high-level heroes -- or rather, when low-level adventurers need healing, they need healing.

Plus, the cleric in a party would probably be able to only heal one character, and it would take all of his spells. The party would have to scrimp and save to buy healing for the others or wait an entire week to heal up everyone.

 

[Oracular Vision]

No, I got your point...I'm just being a smartarse.

I just don't think the wonky unreality is all that wonky. As for the people jumping off 100' cliffs onto the rocks below because they think they have enough hit points, that's an easy fix. Use massive damage rules and adjust the roll with a huge penalty to virtually assure death.

So you are saying the rules are fine the way they are, but you have to change them to fix the problem of falling damage? And this doesn't seem like a contradiction to you? Okay....

 

[Wolfen Priest]

The rules are fine as they are, and if a fighter can survive a 100 foot drop, GOOD. I LIKE THAT.

 

[mmadsen]

I think your 'problems' with the system can all be resolved by rule zero. Every single one of them.

Hmm...any rule problem can be fixed by rewriting the rules! Now why didn't I think of that?!