Rant: Players who don't DM

[Greydt]

While I can understand not wanting to GM, not offering to GM in a group where taking turns is the standard and not offering an explanation, in my opinion, is freeloading (though not tremendously so).

That sounds like a new piece of information that you've added there (in bold). I didn't notice you stating previously that it was discussed among the group from the beginning that everyone is SUPPOSE to take turns DMing.

If that's the case, where it was decided earlier on that everyone would take turns DMing, then I can see that you have a point of being "fed up".

However, if you're just throwing the DM hat out there and looking for someone to volunteer for it, without a pre-determined discussion that DM rotating was "standard", then I agree with Umbran 100%.

To be honest, I really don't see the problem. You say you have good players, you have a second DM in the group to fall back on, and you and the other DM like to DM. Most groups are lucky to have ONE DM, a DM who's not a jerk, or have annoying players. Personally, it took me around 3 years to find a decent group to play with, so from my POV, it seems like you've been rather spoiled

[Correction: I guess you did say that the rotation was used in your initial post]

 

[JesterPoet]

To be honest, I really don't see the problem. You say you have good players, you have a second DM in the group to fall back on, and you and the other DM like to DM. Most groups are lucky to have ONE DM, a DM who's not a jerk, or have annoying players. Personally, it took me around 3 years to find a decent group to play with, so from my POV, it seems like you've been rather spoiled

No doubt I've been spoiled. It's a good group. But there's no question that nearly every group has issues, and this happens to be the issue with this group. It's not a relationship-threatening one by any means, thank God. Nonetheless, it's something that irritates me. I'm sure I do something that irritates C2 & C3 as well, so it all works out.

 

[Trainz]

I am surprised. It is the first time I see such behaviour.

Sure, someone who always DM and never gets to play might be right in his desire to have one of his fellow players DM, but you state that this is not the case (Dude #1 DM's).

Furthermore, you have 3 girls in your group (I find the term "chick" pejorative, sorry), a lot of us would count our blessings if we had but 1.

Be happy you have a good group, and leave it at that.

 

[Zelgar]

Here's a suggestion. Both you and the other GM make up 2 adventures. At the end of your next game, announce that you would wish that the girls try their hand at GM'ing. You or the other GM will help them and Co-GM the game. You let them choose which GM they want to run and give them the adventures you've written.

For the next game, run the first adventure with them as your co-GM so they can see how you run your game. The following week, make them be the GM with you being their helper.

I think you will get better results in teaching the girls how to GM first and then ask them to run a game will have better results then just stating that you and the other GM are tired and expect them to leap at the change of GM'ing.

Zelgar

 

[Epametheus]

If they don't want to DM, then it's just as well that they don't.

Hell, my group has 1 guy who wants to DM on a pretty regular basis, but he's so bad at it that we don't let him. The few times we did let him DM, we've had to veto his character receiving a Gundam, and crap like that.

If they think they have no aptitude for it and they have no desire to do it, then count your blessings.

 

[JesterPoet]

I am surprised. It is the first time I see such behaviour.

Sure, someone who always DM and never gets to play might be right in his desire to have one of his fellow players DM, but you state that this is not the case (Dude #1 DM's).

Furthermore, you have 3 girls in your group (I find the term "chick" pejorative, sorry), a lot of us would count our blessings if we had but 1.

Be happy you have a good group, and leave it at that.

<sigh>

I am happy I have a good group. I'm pretty sure I've explicitly stated that. I simply wish I could play in the same campaign as Dude1. It seemed we had a system set up that allowed me to do that. The situation has proven otherwise. I am disappointed and thus I ranted. I'm pretty sure that does not make me a terribly ungrateful person.


Anyway, good points from everyone. Thanks for the advice from those who gave it. I may just try directly saying, "Why don't you try running a game?" but more than likely I'll just let things be. My mission of ranting was accomplished, and life can go on as usual.

 

[Umbran]

I'm positive that was understood from the question. It wasn't like we never said anything and just waited for them to volunteer.

You might be surprised at how positive one person can be about understanding, and yet be wrong. In this case, it may not have been understood that they needed an excuse.

But I can jump to the conclusion that they do not contribute as much to the group.

I'm not so sure. If they are not interested in the task, they won't approach it with enthusiasm. And if there's one thing a GM needs, it's enthusiasm for the job. Without it, they are assured to do a poor job of it. You think that having them undertake running a poor game is a contribution? Last time I checked, folks were contributing to my games when what they did helped everyone have more fun, not less.

Really, GMing is not a thing to be undertaken due to obligation. If someone wants to do it, fine. But to take on the job solely because other folks expect you to is a really bad way to approach it. Especially if you want them to like doing it.

 

[fafhrd]

There was a recent thread started by Randomling in which she recounted her terror of GMing. She has two great DMs and she felt she couldn't live up their standards. She eventually gathered up the guts to do it with the help of some friendly prodding by the DMs and the community. Now if this fear same applies to your chicks, I can understand their unwillingness. On the boards you've essentially called them greedy cowards. This doesn't bode well for your reception of their GMing skills if they turn out to not have the spark.

 

[StalkingBlue]

There was a recent thread started by Randomling in which she recounted her terror of GMing. She has two great DMs and she felt she couldn't live up their standards. She eventually gathered up the guts to do it with the help of some friendly prodding by the DMs and the community. Now if this fear same applies to your chicks, I can understand their unwillingness. On the boards you've essentially called them greedy cowards. This doesn't bode well for your reception of their GMing skills if they turn out to not have the spark.

Agreed, on all counts. I kept thinking back to that thread as I read through the posts above. That situation is in a different world from what this situation sounds like from JesterPoet's posts. I'm one of randomling's DMs and now players. She's run a brilliantly fun first session and we're only waiting for the other player to get back from holiday to continue. All three of us are having great fun with her game so far, and part of that is that all three of us _wanted_ to be in it in the first place: S'mon and I as players and randomling as GM.

EDIT: And here's the link to that thread in case anyone's wondering.
http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=86668

 

[StalkingBlue]

Sorry JesterPoet, but I'm with Umbran and fafhrd here. Your being passive-aggressive towards the two players who haven't volunteeered to DM isn't a good sign. To be honest, the fact that the one player who let herself be talked into running a game for you isn't prepared to do so anymore is a much more alarming sign. Your readiness to judge her DMing qualities on the basis of what? one session??? doesn't speak well of your understanding of what a new DM is or what a new DM needs.

Maybe learn to offer friendly support to your players and then invite them - individually and in so many words, not with a half-phrase mumbled into space no one particularly wishes to respond to - to maybe try their hand at running a scenario or three if they like. Let them know their readiness to DM would be valued, that you'd like to play alongside the other regular DM for a change. Promise to be good players and supportive of their role as DM. And most importantly if they step on up and DM for you, bloody well keep your promise.

If on the other hand they decline, accept that decision. As others have pointed out, the DM role isn't for everyone. Thinking about contributing to the game, maybe ask yourself how actively those players contribute to the game _as players_. Did you contribute as much to the one session the new-and-nevermore DM ran? Just asking. If you did, great.