[rant] the Charm Person spell sucks in 3E.

[el-remmen]

Yep, I think it sucks now.

I understand the change in duration for the sake of balance - but to me the indeterminate length of the charm based on intelligence from 2E made the spell so useful - I had villians use it all the time to charm people and use them as a last surprise line of defense - or as a method of gathering intelligence on the PCs or other threats. . . Now, even if someone fails their save they will be uncharmed in a few hours and likely remember that they were charmed or at the very least that their attitude towards someone changed and then changed back.

I liked having henchmen, allies, families memebers, locals or even PCs indefinitely charmed by a villian or competitor. It also makes adventures like Against the Cult of the Reptil God hard to convert when so many people are all supposed to be charmed for the adventure to work.

Of course, in the hands of PCs charm person or monster is a very dangerous and abuseable spell - but that was never a worry for me since 1) I am able to more easily control what spells wizard PCs get than in most games, and 2) in Aquerra charm is looked at as a form of (temporary) slavery - and most people of good alignment are loathe to use it - if they even tolerate it at all.

 

[Nail]

Yep, I think it sucks now.
...[snip]...
Of course, in the hands of PCs charm person or monster is a very dangerous and abuseable spell - but that was never a worry for me since 1) I am able to more easily control what spells wizard PCs get than in most games, and 2) in Aquerra charm is looked at as a form of (temporary) slavery - and most people of good alignment are loathe to use it - if they even tolerate it at all.

LOL!

....now wait....gotta get ahold o' myself here....yer complaining 'cause the DM (you) can't use it as easily ta screw PCs, but not complaining about how PCs couldn't use it in yer campaign anyway, 'cause it's evil and you "control" the spells in yer campaign anyway, etc.?

Why do I think yer not gonna get any sympathy on this one?

-Nail

 

[Moon_Goddess]

Of course, in the hands of PCs charm person or monster is a very dangerous and abuseable spell - but that was never a worry for me since 1) I am able to more easily control what spells wizard PCs get than in most games, and 2) in Aquerra charm is looked at as a form of (temporary) slavery - and most people of good alignment are loathe to use it - if they even tolerate it at all.

But you have to realize that that's your world. The adverage Campiagn setting is not like your world, the adverage campign setting is more like Forgotten Realms than King Aurthur.

Is either one better than the other, no They are just personall choice in flavor. But you've already changed so much of the way the world works, why does it harm you to change the duraction on one spell to fit your world?

 

[Crothian]

I think with charm person they had a choice: Either keep it a low level spell and weaken it or keep the powre of the spell and raise the spell level. I'd just create a greater charm person spell.

 

[Jezrael]

I actually like that they changed Charm Person the way they did(it's a first level spell for crying out loud), however, I think they should have put in a higher level spell (maybe 4th or 5th) that acted like the older Charm Spell (Greater Charm anyone?) in terms of duration and effects based on intelligence scores. Course that's just my opinion, YMMV.

 

[arwink]

My players complained about what had happened to Charm for all of five minutes. Then they tried casting Hold Person for the first time in 3e....

 

[drnuncheon]

I understand the change in duration for the sake of balance - but to me the indeterminate length of the charm based on intelligence from 2E made the spell so useful - I had villians use it all the time to charm people and use them as a last surprise line of defense - or as a method of gathering intelligence on the PCs or other threats. . . Now, even if someone fails their save they will be uncharmed in a few hours and likely remember that they were charmed or at the very least that their attitude towards someone changed and then changed back.

Come on, Nem - is the guy doing all this charming first level? Extend Spell is what you want...for each level higher you make your Charm Person, it lasts another (level) hours.

So a 3rd level wizard could charm someone for 6 hours.
5th level, 15 hours (3rd level spell).
7th level, 28 hours (4th level spell).
9th level, 45 hours (5th level spell).
. . .
17th level, 153 hours (> 6 days)...of course by that time you have mass charm as well, which lasts 1 day per level and lets you get multiple people at once...

If you allow Persistent Spell...well, I forget what the level boost on a Persistant spell is, so I have no idea if it's worthwhile to put it on Charm Person.

And really, I think putting people into near-permanent slavery is a little excessive for a first-level spell. You *should* have to be a high level wizard to do that.

J

 

[KnowTheToe]

Ditto to Crothian's post.

 

[hong]

If it doesn't exist already, create a spell out of the 9th level thrall power, from the PsiHB. For 5,000 XP, you can make someone your slave forever.


Hong "Mialee may object, though" Ooi

 

[Pielorinho]

Isn't charm monster a 4th-level spell that lasts 1 day/level? won't this solve the problem?

I'm actually really glad they nerfed charm person: it was unbelievably powerful in an intrigue-based game. Even with its lower duration, it's still probably the single best first-level spell in an intrigue game.

Daniel