D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

[Maxperson]

In my experience, which when it comes to random encounters is based on the B/X and AD&D rulebooks, wandering monsters tend to be regarded as coming from what is - for game play purposes - an endless supply of such beings.

The books didn't state that one way or the other, but I think that they were not truly endless. My feeling is that the books assume that there are enough of them present that for the duration most groups would be in the area/dungeon, all rolls of a particular creature are valid and encountered.

 

[Maxperson]

From the section on GM guidance

If a roll doesn’t go well, show how it was impacted by an adversary’s prowess, environmental factors, or unexpected surprises, rather than the PC’s incompetence.​

I think generally that's good advice, but not as an absolute like that rule implies. I've had players have their PCs try something complicated in a field that their PC had no training or experience in. They were effectively throwing a Hail Mary and they knew it. Failure in those situations probably should be narrated as some level of incompetence, because the PC was in fact incompetent at it.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

In fail forward the dice aren’t deciding the cook is there. The dm is. All the dice decide is that some complication is occurring while the game state progresses.

It’s becoming a big pet peeve of mine to not be precise on that point, especially when we are contrasting with techniques where the dice do actually determine whether the cook is there.

Of course the GM is deciding that. Fiction doesn't just drop out of the sky onto the table! Or, well, maybe your table is different and Metatron speaks out whenever some new fiction is required. Or maybe you got ChatGPT really well trained. Heck, there's potential there!

 

[FrogReaver]

Here, meaningful decision making. If they exist beforehand than a different decision can bypass an obstacle. If they only exist after the roll, then my choices weren't so important -- the roll was.

I don’t think you’re saying it quite right but I think I get the meaning.

There is no guaranteed cook wherever you go here. The cook is contingent on your decision to break into the house. In that respect, a different decision (something other than breaking into the house) would not produce a cook screaming for help.

What I think you mean is that absent specifically asking about the cook beforehand (and why should you), nothing is likely going to have been established that might hint at or otherwise shed light on the cooks late night cooking behavior (assuming we are even tracking time that closely).

In practical terms I think that’s probably just above a non-existent chance of occurring, in which case the gameplay difference seems to be a bit more theoretical (and maybe just knowing it was a possibility is good enough), but in actual play you are probably not learning anything beforehand that could let you avoid the cook. Anything that might let you do so would just a blind luck and not a meaningful decision.

 

[FrogReaver]

Of course the GM is deciding that. Fiction doesn't just drop out of the sky onto the table! Or, well, maybe your table is different and Metatron speaks out whenever some new fiction is required. Or maybe you got ChatGPT really well trained. Heck, there's potential there!

You missed my favorite one of all - the Ouija board.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

It's only a problem if you don't like that style of play. It's not inherently a problem, like most things dealing with mechanics. However, it is a quantum cook since the cook is both behind that door and not behind that door until the die is rolled and her position in the house is fixed.

I see a huge difference between an ogre which appears in front of you no matter what you do, and a cook who appears in response to a die roll. How is the latter different from any old random encounter?

 

[FrogReaver]

I see a huge difference between an ogre which appears in front of you no matter what you do, and a cook who appears in response to a die roll. How is the latter different from any old random encounter?

I’m with you on the ogre. The quantum mischaracterization here seems just as applicable to random encounter tables.

That isn’t to say there aren’t differences in this and random encounter tables, but the issue isn’t that it’s not decided till the moment of the roll, else we would all avoid random encounter tables like fish in the break room.

In @maxperson’s defense he did say earlier that he typically uses random encounter tables before the session, so I guess in a sense he does avoid them just like fish in the break room.

 

[AlViking]

I see a huge difference between an ogre which appears in front of you no matter what you do, and a cook who appears in response to a die roll. How is the latter different from any old random encounter?

There are bears in the forest, whether or not you happen to see one is quite random but they exist whether you see them or not. The cook only exists because of a failed check.

 

[FrogReaver]

There are bears in the forest, whether or not you happen to see one is quite random but they exist whether you see them or not. The cook only exists because of a failed check.

Why can’t the failed check just determine that the cook is there?

But wait isn’t that still quantum. A dice deciding whether the cook is there or somewhere else?

 

[Lanefan]

How would you know that the GM is using improv instead of having written everything down before?

For me, the knowledge would come when (unless the GM is a truly amazing improviser with a perfect memory) the GM slipped up and contradicted herself, or looked up at the ceiling while trying to think something up rather than looked down at her notes to read what's there, or narrated a room that can't be where it is because it's established there's another room already there (this last one is where I fail, every damn time!).

A perfect GM can wing it well enough that we-as-players can't tell the difference if-when she shifts from notes to winging to notes; it all comes across smoothly and seamlessly. When I'm DMing that's the standard I try for, though will likely never achieve.