SableWyvern
Cruel Despot
Yes. I wasn't responding to an assertion that its part of the job, but a question as to what else the job could possibly be.
In any case, as I said, it's not really the way I think of the role. YMMV.
D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.
- Thread starter Reynard
- Start date
In any case, as I said, it's not really the way I think of the role. YMMV.
Old Fezziwig
this is a low-flying panic attack
This was the big takeaway I had when I read about the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire in college.
If I lock someone in a room when the building is on fire, then yes my action of locking the door leads to their death.
There is likely someone out there that I could donate bone marrow to that would save their life if I knew that I was a match. Am I responsible for their death if I do not donate? If I find out I am a match and want to donate but by the time the donation can be scheduled they've died am I responsible?
One of these things is not like the other.
Old Fezziwig
this is a low-flying panic attack
You're missing my point. I'm not assigning moral culpability? responsibility? for the death, but thinking about the upshot of failing to unlock the door. The inability to open a locked door to or in a burning building, however it came to be locked, can lead to people dying that wouldn't have otherwise died if the door could be unlocked. It's not unreasonable to describe the situation as I couldn't unlock the door, therefore the people inside the burning building died -- there's absolutely a causal relationship there, and it doesn't necessarily follow that I'm therefore culpable for or responsible for the deaths.
Micah Sweet
Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
Well, the only reason there would be a causal relationship would be because it is assumed you would have rescued the people who would otherwise burn (if of course saving them is even a possibility). So it seems like the two events are unconnected, or they are connected and you are responsible.
The commitment to finding ever more absurd reasons to construct a Straw-Fail-Forward and knock it down is remarkable.
For other people, an interesting question somebody else brought to me:
Deep Cut's Threat Roll assumes some degree of success via stated Effect, the roll is now to deal with whatever Threats may arise (unless Failure is explicitly brought to bear).
Is each roll here still conflict resolution? Or is it more abstracted task res a la 5e combat; with the Score Target being the overarching conflict we're resolving?
For other people, an interesting question somebody else brought to me:
Deep Cut's Threat Roll assumes some degree of success via stated Effect, the roll is now to deal with whatever Threats may arise (unless Failure is explicitly brought to bear).
Is each roll here still conflict resolution? Or is it more abstracted task res a la 5e combat; with the Score Target being the overarching conflict we're resolving?
Old Fezziwig
this is a low-flying panic attack
Clearly our protagonist in this scenario sucks at picking locks, so it's probably unreasonable to expect they'd save the people inside the building even if they could pick the lock. Those poor souls are going to die anyways.
I regret using the term "causal relationship," as I read it now, but I still think that, in the situation as proposed, the consequence of being unable to pick the lock in the situation is that people inside burn to death and that culpability doesn't line up completely with consequentiality.
Edit: removed an extra "that" in "...and that that culpability...."
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A weird thing to me is that when I run or play in OSR, the goal is to completely avoid rolling for resolution by creating problem solving scenarios where we've reasoned through creative resolution from start to finish that the GM accepts. So obviously that sort of thing is looking at the complete context to adjudicate "will this work" from the GM's perspective and the fiction.
Yet as soon as we introduce a dice, all that now goes away?
Not being able to unlock a door won't in and of itself change the fiction of the world or ongoing events if I'm running the game.
I don't care what you do in your game nor do I want to continue playing semantic games.
Micah Sweet
Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
You folks seem to really like to make denigrating comments about trad play philosophies in the course of "proving your point". Dont see much of that on this side.
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