D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

[Micah Sweet]

Well of course if you assume that the check is to be framed in terms that don't suit "fail forward" resolution, then "fail forward" won't work. Who's surprised by that?

I assume the check is framed the way the game I'm actually playing frames it.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Depends on what it's being used for.

Roll-under intelligence to remember something obscure really is subjective to the PC as the root task is the same for everyone, thus roll-under works well for this. I use it all the time.

Roll-under dexterity to pick a lock doesn't work nearly as well, as it doesn't give the relative difficulty of the lock itself enough say in the matter nor does it allow for any specific lock-picking skill the character might have. '

I'll note again that nothing says roll-under methods can't take modifiers for difficulty. Any number of games do that.

 

[pemerton]

Do you see how it differs, in that the cook's presence is fixed regardless of success or failure?

It changes the way the shared fiction is established. Is that what you mean by "mattering"?

would making it 1 hour help? What about 4 hours? Suppose time matters.

Then it seems like the GM has decided that the player is hosed either way: the unskilled character who blunders in alerts the cook; the skilled character who waits has the clock run out.

Maybe more context would explain why this is not bad GMing: but on its fact that's what it looks like to me.

 

[pemerton]

I assume the check is framed the way the game I'm actually playing frames it.

And the game you actually play doesn't use "fail forward" resolution. So all is good!

 

[Lanefan]

Right, so to kind of give some historical perspective: you can look at the evolution of RPG design and practice as a process of both making the GM's role easier, or at least more practical. Coupled with this is a broadening of the kinds of situations which these games can handle.

Early proto-RPG play, such as Braunstein, required a lot from the GM.

Braunstein required a fair bit of prep and intro from the GM to get things going, but (when I played it, anyway, with Wesely as GM) once play began the GM pretty much just sat there and did nothing the whole time other than watch. Afterwards, he gave a five-minute rundown of what we'd done right in-character and what we'd missed.

Modern games seem to want to reduce the GM's prep and intro work while increasing the during-play work, which seems kinda net-zero to me.

 

[FrogReaver]

Huh?

DnD Beyond doesn't agree with this: https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/basic-rules-2014/combat#Surprise

The DM determines who might be surprised. If neither side tries to be stealthy, they automatically notice each other. Otherwise, the DM compares the Dexterity (Stealth) checks of anyone hiding with the passive Wisdom (Perception) score of each creature on the opposing side. Any character or monster that doesn't notice a threat is surprised at the start of the encounter.​

The "Dexterity (Stealth) checks of anyone hiding" are rolls. If successful (ie they beat the passive Wisdom (Perception) scores of the being(s) on the other side) then the hiding beings are unnoticed. And those who don't notice them are surprised. So that is a roll that is made to determine surprise.

To clear the apparent confusion. There is a previously rolled stealth check that gets used to determine surprise but no rolls are occurring to determine surprise.

Example. PC rolls a 15 on stealth long before combat starts. The PC is trying to sneak through hostile territory. Combat begins. The DM compares that 15 to the passive perception of all enemies. That’s how surprise is determined.

In 5e surprise is directly a function of your parties stealthiness. There is no separate surprise roll.

Another fun 5e tidbit, surprise doesn’t occur if enemies notice even a single member of your party or the party a single enemy.

 

[The Firebird]

It changes the way the shared fiction is established. Is that what you mean by "mattering"?

How do you see it as changing the shared fiction?

There are specific hours when both skilled and unskilled thief avoid the cook and hours when both unskilled thief and skilled thief have the cook in their path.

Separately, the skilled thief is better at picking the lock and moving silently.

Is that fair?

Then it seems like the GM has decided that the player is hosed either way: the unskilled character who blunders in alerts the cook; the skilled character who waits has the clock run out.

Time mattering doesn't mean the clock runs out. It could mean an extra tick on the clock if you happen to choose the kitchen route. Does that mean both are hosed?

Maybe more context would explain why this is not bad GMing: but on its fact that's what it looks like to me.

I'm not asking if it's the kind of game you want to play in, or a good model of reality, or anything like that. Just that it differs in a meaningful way from what you do.

 

[Micah Sweet]

And the game you actually play doesn't use "fail forward" resolution. So all is good!

Correct. I don't really see any value in it for my play, and thousands of posts here about it haven't changed my mind.

 

[Lanefan]

The issue with armor DR is that the system has never been designed for it. If you block a blow from a giant's club with your shield you probably should still take some damage. But then you have a different monster that does a whole bunch of attacks that average just as much damage as the giant's club but that are totally negated if there's DR even if they all hit. There will never be a perfect system.

Easy to just make DR cumulative per round, so if you've got DR 5 and take 12 points damage in a round you still take 7 whether it all came in one hit or from 12 different applications of 1 point each.

 

[Lanefan]

How do you handle the survival expert trying to avoid crossing paths with creatures trough avoiding recent tracks, known waterholes etc tough?

They'd meet fewer potential encounters (i.e. less rolls) per day, but the trip would take a lot longer because all that searching for tracks and detouring around waterholes slows them down.