D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

[Faolyn]

I have a radical suggestion for that situation: Speak up! Point out that you messed up royal, you now realise that this encounter stinks, and ask if it is ok for the players that you retroactively fix up some stuff so you can actually get to have some fun.

My guess is that most players would approciate that honesty, and be more than happy to have you reset the entire thing once you realised you were way off the mark. Or maybe just skip to some desired outcome.

That is also true.

And, of course, there are non-cheaty ways to get around these issues as well. Like running away. Weak enemies could flee into a area they know well enough to avoid the hazards but the PCs might have problems should they choose to follow. A too-powerful BBEG could leave if they hit half or one-quarter hp, swearing revenge--after all, even if the GM "knows" that they'd be able to defeat the PCs with a few more lucky rolls, the foe doesn't know that.

(There's too much fighting to the death in D&D. You don't even need to make morale checks here; just decide how logical it is that the enemy is really willing to risk getting killed for this fight.)

 

[Faolyn]

I see nothing about fudging that has anything to do with "respecting the players".

I guess they didn't have another good place to put that tidbit. Honestly, all the GM sections there could be spelled out more, with actual guidelines that are useful for the more socially-awkward GMs and players and make for good reminders and tips for the less unsure ones.

 

[bloodtide]

Regardless: you can fix this problem without resorting to fudging.

A DM can do just fine without fudging. As a DM can do anything, they don't really need to "fudge".

As a DM, I'm not a Buddy or Fan of the players/characters. So if I roll some dice and a character dies, then it just happens.

So changing things mid session doesn't bother me because plans should be flexible.

I agree. As DM I change anything on my whim.

In this scenario, how do acheive this particular feeling of triumph without fudging?

The beyond easy answer is simply not do anything that requires any sort of roll. If the game has 'no roll' rules, great, use them. Otherwise, you can as DM just say something happens

So, as DM, you just say "the ray of magic knocks the character unconscious.". It is very simple.

 

[Micah Sweet]

That is also true.

And, of course, there are non-cheaty ways to get around these issues as well. Like running away. Weak enemies could flee into a area they know well enough to avoid the hazards but the PCs might have problems should they choose to follow. A too-powerful BBEG could leave if they hit half or one-quarter hp, swearing revenge--after all, even if the GM "knows" that they'd be able to defeat the PCs with a few more lucky rolls, the foe doesn't know that.

(There's too much fighting to the death in D&D. You don't even need to make morale checks here; just decide how logical it is that the enemy is really willing to risk getting killed for this fight.)

I miss morale, and the reaction roll.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Nope. Big boss fight - the action is a big known slam that the players fear. The boss is down on 4 HP. You decided to not do a HP fudge no last hit, as you assessed the players could sweat little bit more to really earn the victory (and the last attack also was a relatively low roll boring attack, while you know they are lining up a great finishing move)

Your advice is relevant in that it helps against some swingy fudge provoking situations. But when it come to big triumph moments, there generally should be something clear denoting the point of victory. The GM suddently just going over to narration mode with no clear in fiction trigger just don't cut it.

This is similar to that in chess it is considered poor form to surrender when you see the opponent have a great forced mate in 3. Give the opponent the joy of actually say those coveted words.

I'm still seeing more solutions upstream.

Like, what you want is a guaranteed cinematic moment, and you're using a system that can leave a boss with 4 hp (hp is not a very cinematic mechanic!) and also can have low roll boring attacks in it. The "fudge" is happening because the ruleset isn't working primarily to provide a cinematic moment. So you can make the system do that, if the table's OK with fudging in the name of drama. If the table's not OK with fudging, and you all like the system you're using, you're all kind of agreeing that cinematic moments aren't actually as important to your group as other things (fairness, clarity, simulation, whatever).

If you want a game design that focuses on big triumph moments, you probably want something that's a more about push and pull than about whittling down a big pool of HP, something where low boring attacks aren't happening (or at least are only happening at the start of the fight, not two rounds in). Mechanics like 13th Age's Escalation Die, or the way villain actions work in Flee Mortals! aim D&D combat a bit more in this direction. With some mechanics supporting your preferred style in place, fudging also becomes less of a thing you need to do.

 

[Maxperson]

"Fudging" is cutesy baby talk to obfuscate what you're actually doing: Cheating.

What unchangeable by the DM rule did the DM violate?

 

[Maxperson]

I miss morale, and the reaction roll.

I treat morale like an ability check in my game. If an enemy would automatically flee or stay, no roll. It just happens. If it's in doubt, I set a DC with a flat d20 roll and if it's exceeded, the enemy doesn't run.

 

[Hussar]

Maybe. I may adjust the number of adversaries just before the fight because I run a sandbox and they may have skipped over or stumbled into more than I had expected but that's it. I tweak monsters on a pretty regular basis so they fit my vision but that's before the session starts.

Once initiative is rolled? It is what it is. But getting to a certain point during a session before that? Until it's in play most things are in flux.

So changing things mid session doesn't bother me because plans should be flexible.

Heh. Funny how things are "in flux" before initiative is rolled, but, changing setting elements is off limits. How can things be in flux and carved in stone at the same time?

 

[Hussar]

See, on the issue of fudging - it's more nuanced than simply changing die rolls. I mean, I've been playing online with VTT's for about 25 years now. Not only are all my rolls in the open, but the players can see status bars showing how close to death something is. I can't just whack on more HP.

But, again, there's all sorts of ways to fudge. Start targeting different PC's. "Forget" to use a monster's abilities. "Forget" to make a saving throw for that ongoing effect and let it last longer. On and on and on. There's a million ways to "fudge" an encounter.

Fudging certainly isn't limited to just nudging the dice or the numbers IMO.