D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

[Maxperson]

Is this meant to argue with me? If they are interchangeable, then the rules for PC's not killing something would be in force.

No. Just reinforce what you are saying. I'm not always arguing with you!

 

[Maxperson]

Together with @Maxperson's excerpt from DMG text this seems like a fair reading to me, i.e. destroyed is synonymous with killed but broadened as you say to account for things that aren't alive in the first place. Thus

A minion is destroyed when it takes any amount of damage.​

​

includes​

​

A minion is killed when it takes any amount of damage.​

They are both included there, but I don't see where that makes a difference. The rules don't preclude you from knocking out a non-minion zombie or golem when you reduce it to 0, so you can still knock out creatures that aren't alive and would be "destroyed."

 

[Cadence]

One additional thought is that in 5e and 4e above half hit points is un-bloodied. So "meat points" as you call them can be the hit points from half and below.

Meat points or partial meat points worked fine for me back in earlier editions. I could imagine it as a simplification. 5e feels very different. It seems to imply a lot of differences in physiology vs. the real world and much of my favorite fiction if one can be beaten, bludgeoned, cut, and burned down to death's door, but bounce most of the way back after resting a bit (sometimes) and all of them back overnight (all the time).

 

[Maxperson]

I have rare documentary footage of a sneak attack by one of the savage beasts taking out a young girl. Caution, not for the feint of heart!

Spoiler: Dangerous beast

 

[Cadence]

Apparently not all species traits are superficial...

 

[Maxperson]

Meat points or partial meat points worked fine for me back in earlier editions. I could imagine it as a simplification. 5e feels very different. It seems to imply a lot of differences in physiology vs. the real world and much of my favorite fiction if one can be beaten, bludgeoned, cut, and burned down to death's door, but bounce most of the way back after resting a bit (sometimes) and all of them back overnight (all the time).

5e very specifically does not have all meat hit points. You don't even take so much as a scratch before half your hit points are lost, and you don't take a direct hit until you are reduced to 0.

So no one is beaten, bludgeoned, cut, or burned down to death's door. Instead they are skilled, lucked, and winded down to half hit points. Then almost as skilled, almost as lucked, and almost as winded down within range of 0, showing scratches and bruising as a result. Then that last hit is a solid strike that cuts deep, burns badly, etc.

"Dungeon Masters describe hit point loss in different ways. When your current hit point total is half or more of your hit point maximum, you typically show no signs of injury. When you drop below half your hit point maximum, you show signs of wear, such as cuts and bruises. An attack that reduces you to 0 hit points strikes you directly, leaving a bleeding injury or other trauma, or it simply knocks you unconscious."

 

[AlViking]

Beware the CLAWS OF DEATH!!!

 

[clearstream]

They are both included there, but I don't see where that makes a difference. The rules don't preclude you from knocking out a non-minion zombie or golem when you reduce it to 0, so you can still knock out creatures that aren't alive and would be "destroyed."

I don't think it makes a difference either! The minions rules expressly preclude knocking a Minion out. That specific overriding the Knocking Creatures Unconscious general. (I'm mildly curious what other explanations folk might conjure for that specific text in minions?)

 

[clearstream]

All they are saying by "Any damage destroys a minion" is "Any damage reduces them to 0 and kills them since they have 1 hit point."

Is it right to say that you see the text as an observation? Whilst I see it as a rule.

How do you consistently identify which game text is observation and which rules?

The rules for knocking creatures unconscious kick in, which would be why when asked WotC said yes you can knock them out.

As I wrote upthread, I'm happy to stand corrected if you can link to an official source. Anecdote, not so much.

 

[Bae'zel]

Meat points or partial meat points worked fine for me back in earlier editions. I could imagine it as a simplification. 5e feels very different. It seems to imply a lot of differences in physiology vs. the real world and much of my favorite fiction if one can be beaten, bludgeoned, cut, and burned down to death's door, but bounce most of the way back after resting a bit (sometimes) and all of them back overnight (all the time).

We apply movie logic to this.

Protagonists donning bandages, slight limps etc. while fully competent in the next scene.

Regardless, I think most people suspend their disbelief with this game, whether they accept HP as "abstract fatigue and luck" or "meat points". Either way, the rules create strange events that contradict either viewpoint.

So I've drawn a line in the sand and firmly stand on one end, handwaving things to suit that end. I did that with OSR games too, not just modern D&D.