D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

[AlViking]

No, its to suggest its irrelevant, because there's no common ground that can be derived that way. You might as well be talking about a different game.

It's only irrelevant if you're redefining the game and to the point there's no recognizable game being used as a foundation. I know some people go to that extreme, I know I don't and I've never heard of anyone in my actual gaming circle going to that extreme.

 

[Thomas Shey]

It's only irrelevant if you're redefining the game and to the point there's no recognizable game being used as a foundation. I know some people go to that extreme, I know I don't and I've never heard of anyone in my actual gaming circle going to that extreme.

I maintain it still does if it modifies the rule area being talked about it enough. If the response to a discussion of Rules Topic A is to say you've houseruled it in a way to make the problem area not a problem (which may involve houseruling in other areas) that may be vaguely useful in a "how can this be fixed" way, but at best that's useful for GMs, and has no impact on the general impact of that rule in the populace playing the game unless the same houserule is common (which itself pretty much ends up being an acknowledgment that it is, indeed, a problem).

 

[kermit4karate]

No, its to suggest its irrelevant, because there's no common ground that can be derived that way. You might as well be talking about a different game.

Exactly. For many, many, many of us, D&D has been a different game. Dramatically different rules, dramatically different experiences, and new games are trying to compete with that multi-generational history of creativity and maleability.

D&D players today play different amalgams of all previous versions coupled with different combos of house rules. It is what it is. That annoys a lot of people who dislike D&D and want to develop something different but it feels like they're aiming at a moving target, which they are. That's why it's so tough to compete with D&D.

 

[James Gasik]

That's just it. The different D&D editions ENDORSE the creation and use of house rules. Tweaking the rules is part of the rules of the game. If someone claims to love 1E even if they say they never followed some of the rules that's perfectly reasonable because they're actually following the rules when they do that.

To be rigid about the interpretation is to ignore a core tenet.

Sometimes they do. And sometimes Gary Gygax will go from "make the game your own" to suddenly switching gears and saying if you don't play the game exactly as written, "you're not playing D&D".

 

[kermit4karate]

Sometimes they do. And sometimes Gary Gygax will go from "make the game your own" to suddenly switching gears and saying if you don't play the game exactly as written, "you're not playing D&D".

Gary Gygax is a part of history. No longer has a claim to D&D in any way, shape or form.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Sure. But when talking about a game, at some point its nice to actually be talking about the same game, and the only common ground there is what's written in the book. Otherwise at some point you have the Game of Theseus.

Don't we already have Game of Theseus? I've always operated under that assumption.

 

[Micah Sweet]

As I said, its no harder to find magical ways to get rid of them entirely. That's a poor reason far as I'm concerned. I've seen plenty of games that do matters-of-degree and somehow we managed to not have people work the edges.



In other words, lazy design.



Notice I mentioned chainmail, not plate.

I thought we weren't allowed to characterize any part of a game as "lazy design"? Seems a little uncharitable.

 

[Micah Sweet]

It's only irrelevant if you're redefining the game and to the point there's no recognizable game being used as a foundation. I know some people go to that extreme, I know I don't and I've never heard of anyone in my actual gaming circle going to that extreme.

Yup. I'm still playing 5e. Houserules and 3pp or not. We can still talk about 5e together.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Sometimes they do. And sometimes Gary Gygax will go from "make the game your own" to suddenly switching gears and saying if you don't play the game exactly as written, "you're not playing D&D".

Gary was inconsistent. It is known and I think it can be safely dismissed.